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Part II: Is There a Conspiracy by the Traditional Black Church to Keep BW Single?

June 14, 2010

We’ve known each other for three weeks now, and even though it’s been a short time, I’d like to think that we have something…a connection, you know?  And if you really knew me, I mean, really and truly, you’d see what a shameless bomb-thrower I am.

I like to think of myself as a Renaissance blogger.  I really have no desire to put forth my opinions in a preachy way.  Rather, I consider myself a facilitator for honest dialogue and debate.  And for that reason, you might not always identify which side of the issue I’m on.

But just this once, I’ll give it up, fully and openly.

The main point of using an incendiary reference in yesterday’s post was, in part, meant to spark a conversation. But just look at the responses of so many women who replied with startlingly similar experiences!  That’s a conspiracy– whether intentional or otherwise.  (Makes me think of a saying about the paving used on the road to Hell…)

The TBC is engaged in a conspiracy of silence. Keeping mum about corrosion in the community, giving passes for people who don’t deserve them; selling false hope to desperate, lonely people; and turning a blind eye to the pock that mars the tip of the nose.  It is the sin of omission, not of co-mission. It is the sitting on the hands that I take issue with. The NOT doing. The complacency. When you see before you eyes 70 percent of a female population unmarried (although I allow a lesser percentage for those who prefer to be single) and holding out hope for a group of males who have no problem exercising their options to marry other races, planting their seeds in wombs without a wedding, or not bothering to marry at all. Yet, those in a position to effect change sit on their hands.  Some go so far as to tell you to wait and pray for your husband.  One lady LorMarie mentioned in yesterday’s comments testified every Sunday that she was going to wait for the Lord to send her a mate until she died– unhitched.

Here’s a crazy thought for pastors, prophets and general People of the Cloth: Instead of preaching submission 50-11 times, why not take a more activist role in recruiting Christian men of all races and cultures into the church to even things up a bit?

As for faith, I am a strong believer in God. I know he is real and he has shown his presence in my life too many times for me to ignore. On the other hand, I am evolving into a fierce anti-religionist.

There; I am now stepping off the soapbox and assuming my regular role as “Shit Slinger Extraordinaire.” Thank you.  Thankyouverymuch.

Wait! If you haven’t had a chance to look at Deborrah Cooper’s inspired essay on the topic, see it here.

Oh!  And not to be a nag or anything, but have you joined our Facebook fan page yet?  Do it, then go eat your vegetables.

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41 Comments leave one →
  1. lovelybubbly permalink
    June 14, 2010 8:55 pm

    When you speak of Christian leaders recruiting more men into the church that’s not an easy task because for many reasons men are just not as willing to follow leadership of a Pastor, Minister or even the Almighty himself, some men only start coming to church when they have been psychologically beat up by life situations then they seek God.I’ve heard men say they’d rather stay home on sunday to watch a football game than go to church. Then there’s also some pastors who themselves are single and have no interest in marrying well known Pastors such as legendary singer Al Green and the City of Refuge Bishop Noel Jones who is a well known TV evangelist who has a megachurch in Gardena,Ca of over 20,000 members many are single and see no First Lady seated up front come sunday morning so where are your examples of marriage?

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 15, 2010 7:07 am

      I agree, lovelybubbly: getting men into the church is no easy task. But a church is by default an activist organization. Can’t they at least try?

  2. June 14, 2010 9:46 pm

    Happy Bastille Day, randomthoughtsfromcali, a totally appropriate holiday for what you are doing.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 14, 2010 10:02 pm

      I think we’re a little early but…Vive le Revolucion!

  3. kaikou permalink
    June 15, 2010 7:15 am

    @lovelybubbly

    So isn’t the very idea then to start asking them to be a part of the church before they have ignored it too long or is psychological damaged some how? That what recruitment is…letting someone know that they are valuable and what they can get in return.

    There needs to be a huge overhaul in TBC and BC( whatever that really means), because it is becoming a deadly/dead end cycle for all those involved.

    Going to church has to be a personal commitment, in my opinion. I am not there to worry about know man/boy whatever anyways, it would be time for God and me (I do not attend church).

    But the fact that the church is filled with single women should speak volumes about where men and women’s minds are right now- two different levels. Although if most women go to church expecting a man there for them, they are delusion al. The numbers don’t add up.

  4. lovelybubbly permalink
    June 15, 2010 7:33 am

    If were speaking about churches in the black community exclusively unfortunately many black men are being recruited into more radical thinking doctrines than the traditional church, there was a local cable network in the Bay Area where I used to reside that showed Ministers from the Nation of Islam on this channel and there services showed men outbumbering women 10 to 1 the black men were the majority. Its sad that black churches can’t get men to come like that.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 15, 2010 7:37 am

      TBC’s should enlist a mole into those organizations, like stealth ninja, so that they can gather intelligence and learn of the competition’s recruitment tactics! 🙂

  5. lovelybubbly permalink
    June 15, 2010 7:43 am

    Its not like the church isn’t welcoming to men its men who don’t feel the need to go..Some people only turn to God while their in crisis or in desperation so I’ve seen churches where the only men actively participating and regularly coming where old enough to have traveled the underground railroad! Young men who are wild and don’t like the confides of the ten commandments won’t conform also some don’t trust ministers men are usually competitive towards other men.

  6. lovelybubbly permalink
    June 15, 2010 8:01 am

    Enlist a mole into the Nation of Islam! I think that could be dangerous if you research their history the radical movements are not the place to play around I know because I was involved with one myself.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 15, 2010 8:07 am

      But not just ANY mole…a NINJA mole. 🙂

  7. June 15, 2010 8:42 am

    Church is a waste of time in the eyes of Black men. Who that considers himself a man, a leader – would place himself in a position of inferiority to a Pastor that was a pimp or in prison a few years ago! Brothas ain’t trying to hear all that!! They know a scam when they see one! Women are the more gullible, naive creatures that blindly follow the words of some knucklehead standing in front of the pulpit, without question.

    Black men are attracted to the Muslim faith because it is even MORE sexist than Christianity and the idea that they might have more than one wife at a time sounds good too. Most Black men become Muslims while in prison – did you know that? While in prison, religion is used as a prop, a crutch, something to hold onto during the hard times to get these men through their time.

    Men use religion to beat women over the head and control them, and they feel justified in doing so because GOD or ALLAH said that men have the right to do so. What a bunch of bullshit! A woman of strength has no need for religion or a religious man.

  8. Pantherbaby permalink
    June 15, 2010 9:12 am

    Deborah is right but instead of recruiting men into your church how about finding a church that’s more fitting to your needs I attend a very diverse church with a young pastor and there are plenty of men who attend church and not some downtrotten men looking for a wife cause they need help but professional men white collar men and there are some looking for a wife but some people are so stuck in tradition going to the same church mama went to or grandma went to even though your not learning anything there and all the men are either married already or very old. The ladies that are single and Christian desiring something new try this: Occassionally visit other churches not in the black community but a more diverse church one with more men present you don’t have to leave your church home but venture out because a man being a believer should be the only thing that matters not if he is a member of your church if a church expects you to only consider a man from the congregation that sounds like a cult.

  9. lafemmenoir permalink
    June 15, 2010 6:00 pm

    The thing that the Nation of Islam (and mainstream islam) does offer that church’s don’t offer to black men is the sense of pride in who and what they are.

    Let me say this next thing and then I will explain that ^ statement.

    Most black people don’t know that during slavery whites used christian religion (and brutality) to keep the slaves in a state of submission. Our antecedents were NOT christian, but practiced their own indigenous beliefs, and some even practiced Islam, as we know through the story of prince Abdulrahman Ibrahim Ibn Sori and the writings of Alex Haley (think: Kunta Kente). To some, christianity teaches docility and passivity, both of which don’t sit well with most black men. They feel that for the last 4-5 centuries, blacks, men in general, had their freedom taken from them and were given christian religion in it’s place; the religion of the oppresser. I can’t remember it exactly, but I was told by a black guy something like, ” black women cling to the church because they long for the old days when they were cared for by white men. That’s why they pray to a white jesus, because jesus represents the white man that they desperately desire, not a black man that they are stuck with ’cause nobody else want them.” He said this -ish with a straight face. He felt comfortable saying it to me because I wasn’t a christian and he thought that I might see things the same way. He was NOI, turned 5-percenter. I didn’t tell him that I had a major thing for Keanu Reeves, it would have crushed him.

    Having said that, the NOI’s version of islam (they are not considered muslim by most islamic sects, but that is a discussion for another day)teaches the men that there is nothing wrong with being black, that blacks are not “cursed”, that black unity/family are powerful & the foundation of the black community, that black men are powerful, etc. There are many other things, but I wanted to stick to generalization, rather than specifics. This religion/organization appeals to people who have been marginalized and feel/felt powerless/weak. In their minds christianity, the religion of massa’ teaches docility and keeps them weak, whereas within islam, be it NOI or mainstream islam, you learn to be MEN who are strong, intelligent and confident. This is why they (those seeking faith/religion) flock to NOI/mainstream islam in droves. How do I know? I used to be a muslim (sunni) and I did dialogue with the (black)brothers about why they left the church and what they were seeking within islam (NOI & mainstream). Islam is a very “masculine” religion, in my opinion, almost to the near exclusion of women, but that too is a discussion for another day.

    To me, spirituality & religion are 2 different things and that all too often people mistake one for the other. I see religion as a set of rules, tasks, rituals and incantations to be followed to the letter to get the “desired” results, whereas I see spirituality as a direct-connectedness and centeredness to all that is around me, seen and unseen, without the need of the trappings of religion. I no longer believe that I need to go to a building to express my spirituality. I feel free.

    As far as a mate is concerned, I don’t limit myself based on race, and I don’t stress about getting married, because I was married in the past for over 9 years. It will happen, or maybe not. Either way, I will be ok. If I want a child, I know where I can buy the “kit” (laughing) or I can always adopt.

    I also want to say that I think that it is in the interest of the church to string women along by telling them that they can get a good man if they do “XYZ”, when in reality they know that these women, overwhelmingly, will not find a man in church.
    I read that fifty-three percent of all black households give to charity, and 59 percent of their donations go to churches and other religious purposes. Also, African-Americans who make between $30,000 and $50,000 give an average of $528 annually, compared with $462 donated by their white counterparts ***in the same income range***. $9 of every $10 donated by African-Americans goes to churches or religious groups. Seeing that only 1 in 5 men, (keep in mind that blacks make up only 15% of the population combined)claim religious belief, where do you think all that money is coming from? Be honest. That’s right, black women. Where is their incentive to help you find you a man?

  10. June 22, 2010 11:49 am

    Wondering if anyone saw this: http://survivingdating.com/?p=1229

  11. STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
    June 23, 2010 8:18 pm

    Hello again, Christelyn. I’m the guy from the other night on Facebook.

    “Here’s a crazy thought for pastors, prophets and general People of the Cloth: Instead of preaching submission 50-11 times, why not take a more activist role in recruiting Christian men of all races and cultures into the church to even things up a bit?”

    That is a crazy thought. Here’s a crazier one… how about you (or any other women who feel the same way) simply venture out to those churches with the men you’re looking for (since men are the reason women go to church anyway, right)?

    How (for example) can a church recruit men of all races and cultures and still be a Black church? The next logical step would be to recruit WOMEN of all races and cultures into these same Black churches and before you know it, like everything else that was made by and for Black people, it’ll get lost in translation. No longer will Black people have a place to organize amongst themselves, if they so choose.

    Why aren’t you “questioning” the standard of beauty which sets the tall, skinny Eurocentric blonde as the epitome of feminine grace, attractiveness and overall womanhood… while at the same time denigrating and defaming dark-skinned Black women for their lusciously chocolate tones, and big, juicy lips as masculine and savage?

    Why aren’t you “questioning” the White, Asian, Hispanic guys who refuse to take a chance on that Black women he’s feeling because he’s doesn’t want to upset his family by marrying a “lowly Black girl” …or because he finds Black women disgusting?

    But no, the Black church is keeping Black women single.

    The problem with a lot of Black women in IR is that they lose their passion for justice. All of you. You’re afraid of making non-Black men look bad, therefore anything that shows them in a negative light is glossed over. That’s why you don’t address those issues. Instead you tip-toe around the real socioeconomic reasons that are directly contributing to this with what…?

    “The Black church is engaged in a conspiracy of silence.”

    You’re literally saying that the Black church is keeping Black women single by doing absolutely nothing. I suppose Black people make a great scapegoat, though. Everyone else was doing it to us… why wouldn’t we do it to ourselves?

    My response is “No”. There is no conspiracy from the Black church to keep Black women single. Straight, no chaser.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 23, 2010 8:31 pm

      Why am I not questioning xyz? Simple. I don’t have too. AND this is MY blog, dammit! I speak to what I know. Obviously, you don’t, because if you would read the 70+ co-signers on this issue, you wouldn’t step in here and expect me to hold the torch for all things black people. ‘Tis all.

      • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
        June 23, 2010 8:47 pm

        Those “70+ co-signers” are either Black women who prefer IR, or non-Black men who want to score online brownie points anyway (I’m sure). All people who have something to gain by saying that the “Black Church/Community/Man” is bad.

        I don’t expect you to hold the torch for all things Black people, Christelyn. Not at all. I really want you to realize that non-Black men are not beyond accountability when it comes to Black women and why some are “single and alone” (as you say).

        Just because you’re speaking to what you know, doesn’t make what you know right. There’s speaking on what you know… and then there’s speaking on what’s happening independent of you altogether. To put your feelings aside and say what’s really going on.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 23, 2010 10:21 pm

        So…basically you’re saying that there is absolutely NO problems the TBC needs to address, and that black men are wonderful, and we’re all delusional? Nobody is saying that non-black men are the Holy Grail, but dating interracially IS an option for so many, many, many, many black women who are single lonely and praying for Jesus to send them their husband via UPS. You kill me coming in here trying to gaslight me and my readers! Your “oh no, there’s no problem, you’re just…” is getting sooooo tired. Do you (meaning you as part of black males) hold any accountability for anything? Is it all our fault?

        As far as my feelings, trust and now that as a journalist, I DO have my facts straight. I will match you point for point with hard facts, so bring it!

      • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
        June 24, 2010 7:41 am

        I’ve made it clear that I believe there is a problem; I’ve never said there isn’t a problem. This particular problem is not as a result of the Black church, however. How can we blame the Black church without blaming a society that has historically (and concurrently) upheld European womanly standards AND degraded Afrocentric womanly standards at the same time? The Black church doesn’t have anything to do with that, much less a conspiracy.

        Plus, I didn’t blame Black women for anything (I’m assuming “our fault” means “Black women’s fault”). You see, Black women in IR relationships have this “all or nothing” approach when it comes to analyzing Black men’s actions.

        Whenever a problem involving Black women arises… it’s either all Black men’s fault, or it just isn’t a problem at all. Heck, I know Black women in IR relationships who’d sooner turn on other Black women before they’d ever let non-Black men (especially White men) have the same treatment.

        You’re asking if I (as a Black man) hold any accountability for anything. Of course, we’re not perfect. But I’ll be darned if I take all of it …and non-Black men take none of it (when really they get a lot more credit than they deserve by IR-minded Black women).

        Please don’t misinterpret my disagreeing with you as some kind of unappreciation for your invite. I very much appreciate it, and I have a lot of respect for the way you’re willing to stand by your beliefs.

        Just know that it doesn’t make you any less respectable to realize that there’s more to a story than what you only allow yourself to see. This “Black church conspiracy”, though, is unnecessarily off base. A journalist who “protects” a group of men from any scrutiny when they are a major contributing factor to the problem (non-Black men) isn’t a journalist at all.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 24, 2010 8:53 am

        “A journalist who “protects” a group of men from any scrutiny when they are a major contributing factor to the problem (non-Black men) isn’t a journalist at all”

        *rolls of sleeves like Popeye after he eats a can of spinach* Okay, you’re not getting away with that drive by. I want you find ONE, just one itty bitty one post where I said (not my readers, but ME) where I am protecting non-black men? This should be good…

        *in my best Obama impersonation* Let me be clear. This is a blog to communicate a much needed fact that black women need to realize–if they open their options, there’s a lot more fish in the sea. Get it? Just like there are blogs on gardening, sewing, knitting, how to loose weight, how to score girls, how to throw up your food and stay skinny, how to parent, and how to NOT be obnoxious (I’m looking at you! :)) THIS is a blog to help black women liberate their thinking in a supportive, humorous and intelligent manner.

      • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
        June 24, 2010 9:58 am

        “Just like there are blogs on gardening, sewing, knitting, how to loose weight, how to score girls, how to throw up your food and stay skinny, how to parent, and how to NOT be obnoxious (I’m looking at you!:))”

        LMAO! Alright, alright. I’ll try to tone that down. You might want to send that url my way though because I might need it.

        The Black women who protect non-Black men won’t say that they’re protecting non-Black men, even though they are. This is human nature. Instead they prove through their actions that they are indeed protecting them.

        So the fact that you would rather blame the Black church for not going out of their way to recruit non-Black men into their Black churches as to why BW are single …that’s a big form of protectionism.

        Because you’re implying that all that’s keeping non-Black men from Black women, is the Black church. Even if this were true about the Black church (I’ll pretend it is for a moment), you’re not addressing the issues that non-Black men have with Black women. As if non-Black men are above being held under scrutiny.

        Are Hispanic churches going out of their way to recruit non-Hispanic men? No… because they’re “Hispanic churches”. There are concerns and conversations that are unique to Hispanics and are better suited in an environment that fosters to them.

        Also, how is scrutinizing Black men, Black women, the Black church, etc… while holding non-Black men exempt from their inactions and prejudices against Black women liberating Black women’s collective thinking? That ideal has been going on in this country since it’s inception. Unless I’m missing something, we’ve seen this script before.

        It’s not so much about “opening their options” as it is “making non-Black men the only options”. Don’t you feel that way when you look through some of the posts on this blog (and comments from others to the posts) at times?

    • BlkQueenBee permalink
      June 24, 2010 11:45 am

      Now we want “justice”.

      Black guy wants justice; I guess we could spend a long time on that subject.

      So, from your point of view it is unjust for black women to say anything about the black men that use them, sponge off of them, physically abuse them, denigrate them in song and conversation, impregnante them and abandon them, try to subjugate them, etc. all on a DAILY basis, without giving equal time to the historical and social injustice the white man has forced upon them?

      So, in other words, first we have to solve the big problem of racism before we can start talking about the bad things black men do to black women?

      Uh-huh. That timetable seems to work out pretty well for the black guys that are messin’ up, doesn’t it? I guess we can count on having those conversations somewhere around 2350, then. You know, after we fix racism.

      This is so typical of the black men in America – whenever their shortcomings come up in any discussion, they want to change the subject and talk about de evil white man, institutional racism and oppression.

      “Yeah, that’s what we need to talk about, that right there!”

      Give it a rest. Changing the subject might still work on most black women, but I don’t think it’s going to work on the women here on these types of blogs. Take that tired rhetoric elsewhere.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 24, 2010 12:05 pm

        *stands up, slow hand clap* Check and mate.

      • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
        June 24, 2010 2:51 pm

        “So, from your point of view it is unjust for black women to say anything about the black men that use them, sponge off of them, physically abuse them, denigrate them in song and conversation, impregnante them and abandon them, try to subjugate them, etc. all on a DAILY basis, without giving equal time to the historical and social injustice the white man has forced upon them?”

        Yes. In the entire history that Black people have been in this country, we never had a traditional family. Black women never had the luxury of being a housewife… and Black men were estranged from their families altogether. So, how is it that Black men are suddenly supposed to be model fathers and citizens of society when this behavior was indoctrinated in them for 300+ years? At the end of the day, it didn’t originate with Black men.

        Even if you were to deal with the Black guys who are giving Black women grief… and Black women somehow all got up and left Black men. BW STILL have to deal with the racism anyway, no? The current standard of beauty.

        It doesn’t make sense for there to be OkCupid articles where Black women are the least responded to by non-Black men… but then blame the Black church for the Black women who do happen to be “single and alone”.

        There are 2 million more Black women than Black men (I wonder how this came about)… at some point you’re going to have to realize that non-Black men are what’s keeping Black women single.

  12. June 23, 2010 11:46 pm

    I’m still waiting for my “online brownie points”. Are they supposed to show up in a Facebook app or will they be attached to my WordPress profile?

    • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
      June 24, 2010 7:46 am

      Let’s not be patronizing. How can a White man (or any non-Black man) “co-sign” that there is a “conspiracy by the Black church to keep Black women single”, when he’s probably never even set foot in a Black church… much less on a regular basis? He’s just trying to get those particular Black women to lower their guard and boost his own ego in the process. Brownie points.

      I’m not talking about in general, either. Just this particular issue.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 24, 2010 8:45 am

        You sound really hot. I’ll bet you’ll get a lot of overtures from the ladies on here.

      • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
        June 24, 2010 10:00 am

        I bet I’ll get half of those overtures because my username alone.

      • June 24, 2010 8:57 pm

        Honestly, while I might have missed one, I don’t think there is even a single amen comment from a non-black man about the black church, because we do realize it’s not something we know much about. I did comment about my unsuccessful efforts to diversify my own church. If I was trying to charm brownie points, I would have claimed success rather than failure.

      • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
        June 25, 2010 6:39 am

        Fair enough.

        Christelyn did say that she had 70+ cosigners …and they can’t all be Black women. But also, just because you aren’t trying to get brownie points doesn’t mean some other guy is just as innocent in his intentions.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 24, 2010 8:57 am

      HAHAHA!

  13. randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
    June 24, 2010 2:58 pm

    STEP ASIDE – Black Man Coming Through :

    “So, from your point of view it is unjust for black women to say anything about the black men that use them, sponge off of them, physically abuse them, denigrate them in song and conversation, impregnante them and abandon them, try to subjugate them, etc. all on a DAILY basis, without giving equal time to the historical and social injustice the white man has forced upon them?”

    Yes. In the entire history that Black people have been in this country, we never had a traditional family. Black women never had the luxury of being a housewife… and Black men were estranged from their families altogether. So, how is it that Black men are suddenly supposed to be model fathers and citizens of society when this behavior was indoctrinated in them for 300+ years? At the end of the day, it didn’t originate with Black men.

    Even if you were to deal with the Black guys who are giving Black women grief… and Black women somehow all got up and left Black men. BW STILL have to deal with the racism anyway, no? The current standard of beauty.

    It doesn’t make sense for there to be OkCupid articles where Black women are the least responded to by non-Black men… but then blame the Black church for the Black women who do happen to be “single and alone”.

    There are 2 million more Black women than Black men (I wonder how this came about)… at some point you’re going to have to realize that non-Black men are what’s keeping Black women single.

    Here’s how what I have to say about you last statement which I believe is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard come out of anyone’s keyboard since I started this blog. This, STEP ASIDE, is what you are doing: https://beyondblackwhite.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/do-some-black-women-realize-they-are-being-gaslighted/

    • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
      June 24, 2010 5:09 pm

      With all due respect Christelyn, what information have I posted that has been false?

      So am I to understand that non-Black men ARE being encouraged by their own families and society in general to see Black women as “marriage material”. Non-Black men have no apprehensions whatsoever about being in serious relationships with Black women? Are they that innocent in all of this?

      • June 24, 2010 10:38 pm

        Scan the blog more carefully. It’s widely admitted here that many WM (I would say more than half) would not consider a BW for a relationship. But believe this, some of us DO.

        There is a lot of unappreciated value in BW. BW are very underserved romantically for at least three reason.

        1. As you say, non-Black society (that would be men & women, White & other minorities) often entertains racist stereotypes about BW’s behavior, attitudes, intelligence, and beauty. This is not being ignored.

        2. 2 million more BW than BM.

        3. Issues between BW and some BM.

        Can’t do a damn thing about #2.

        So there are a few appropriate BM and a few appropriate non-BM. But since most BW are exclusively focused on BM, and often make compromises to pursue them, the best way to create desperately needed improvement for BW is to convince more of them to broaden their focus.

        BW generally already have a low opinion of non-BM as romantic prospects. There often ARE problems with non-BM as romantic prospects, BUT most BW (in the opinion of the supporters of this blog) have an unnecessarily dismal view of what is possible relationshipwise with non-BM. Given that, it serves no positive purpose to reinforce that dismal view.

        Truthfulness is still essential. A few IR-enthusiasts are over-enthused. Realism about non-BM is needed so as not to set BW up to be exploited by some non-BM. But general BW’s opinion of IR needs to be improved to be brought in line with the real deal.

        That is why the faults of non-BM and their families is not given more ink here.

    • STEP ASIDE - Black Man Coming Through permalink
      June 25, 2010 7:20 am

      “There often ARE problems with non-BM as romantic prospects, BUT most BW (in the opinion of the supporters of this blog) have an unnecessarily dismal view of what is possible relationshipwise with non-BM. Given that, it serves no positive purpose to reinforce that dismal view.”

      Yet, it does serve a “positive purpose” to reinforce the dismal view as it pertains to Black men? I don’t buy that. How is it justifiable that the dismal view is limited to Black men? What makes that any different than the propaganda shoved down Black men’s throat about non-BW compared to Black women?

      It’s not okay to defame one group of men in order to make other groups of men more “appealing”. They should be more appealing off of their own merits. You think Black men had IR-minded White women trying to convince other White women that Black men were appealing? Black men were (and still are) seen as bottom-of-the-barrel, lurid savages. Still, Black men (as a group) appealed to these women without the IR-minded White woman’s need to debase and degrade the men of her own racial group.

      So, I’m sure it’s not necessary to debase and degrade Black men in the same way. This is my last post on the site (and the last time I visit after reading your response) so you get the last word. Don’t worry, I WILL read what you have to say in response.

      If you’re reading this Christelyn, thank you. But I can’t risk damaging your credibility with your other readers by continuing to be here. Especially after you’ve been so gracious… and not to mention, poised and patient.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 25, 2010 9:40 am

        Reinforcing truths is indeed a positive thing, even if those truths are seen as a negative — and the truth is that black women need to start looking outside the black community if they want to find a mate. Period. It’s no longer a practical or realistic ideal for women to wait for their black Prince Charming to come along, because 9 times out of ten he’s not even looking for his black queen. And please don’t get me started on all the black men who wouldn’t even consider a sista over a blonde, an Asian or a Latino and say it’s their “preference.” We’re supposed to think THAT’s a positive thing for black women?

        Dissenting or opposing viewpoints does nothing to undermine my credibility, because on this blog we’re dealing with facts — not some attempt to black man bash. My beloved father (may he rest in peace) was the first man I ever adored and my biggest fan — and a black man. I have plenty of other good black men in my life. The problem for many, many, many black women who are looking for suitable companions there are just too few of them out there.

        And while you’ve been quick to talk history and slavery, some of which is indeed valid, you’ve failed to go back a little further to discuss all the African people who made it possible for white men to enslave other black Africans to be shipped over here. So it ain’t all a white man thing.

        Added, where in the world is that sense of responsibility from all those many, many black men out there who bed and don’t wed and leave their baby mamas high and dry? Even our President had an absent African dad…and now he’s calling for men to step up to the plate and be real fathers to their children. (How many of them do you think will come to bat?)

        I’m not saying that black women have no responsibility in this scenario either — which is why Janice and I are insisting that if the brothas ain’t doing the right thing, then find another guy who will — even if he’s a yellow, brown or white.

        So, yeah, we’ll point out the realities of the situation, and that may not always be appealing or flattering to black men out there, but we won’t hold back on the problems with men of other cultures. We’ve only been up a month, so we’re just getting started. But if you want to bail, I can’t stop you. But to paraphrase a tried and true…if you can’t stand the heat, jump on out of the kitchen — cause it’s definitely gonna get hotter up in here. I guarantee it.

      • June 25, 2010 7:15 pm

        Step, we need to distinguish between

        … criticizing the bad behavior of WM in the past,

        … criticizing the bad behavior of WM not inclined toward BW,

        … and criticizing the behavior of WM claiming to be interested in BW,

        … so that the problems of the first two groups of WM aren’t unfairly placed on the WM who are claiming to be interested in BW.

        If we are to be comparing apples with apples, what really matters is

        … the range of character for BM who claim to be interested in, or have a right to control, BW.

        … and the range of character for WM who claim to be interested in BW.

        The character of WM of the past, or WM who are not prospective mates, is not really relevant. They would be oranges not apples.

        There is a fascinating discussion on this here:

        Sleeping with the Enemy

        Where a BM presents many of your arguments, and another BM, myself, and a few BW counter them.

        I would post much of that material here, but I don’t want to hijack the thread.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 25, 2010 8:09 pm

        Hijack away Aaby! You’re like family here. 🙂

  14. MDR permalink
    June 30, 2010 4:12 pm

    Radio personality Jacque Reid recently interviewed a relationship expert that says the Black church is keeping Black women single and lonely. It was based on an article she wrote. You can hear the interview on her website, http://www.JacqueReid.com/ and her info should be on the “Links page.

    Secondly, check out this blog: http://marvelousmax.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/is-the-black-church-really-keeping-black-women-single-and-lonely/

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 30, 2010 5:31 pm

      Thanks for finding this. I replied to the last post and I’ll check out the show now. Thanks, sis.

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