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Why Are Some Black Men Seeing Red When Black Women Date White?

June 2, 2010

Some black men like to call black women out when they date outside the race

As I go undergo my series of interviews with psychologists and experts in interracial and intercultural relationships for the book, I wanted to make sure I tackled a burning concern many black women have about being seen with a non-black significant other amongst a cluster of disapproving black men.  While I’ve heard many theories, I plan to explore each one and try to come to some kind of cohesive thesis–although I am aware there are many factors for the behavior. To be honest, I find their disapproval somewhat self-serving and disingenuous, considering recent census data show that black men marry interracially by DOUBLE DIGITS over black women.

In the meantime, I thought you might enjoy listening to one psychologist’s take on why black man take it so personally when they see their women “dating out.” Excuse the dodgy audio–I’m just trying to figure this stuff out.  Trust me, it will get better!

After listening, feel free to chime in on your opinions as well as your experiences.  Weigh in on the issue!

Interview Question for Claire Caines, Psychologist who specializes in interracial relationship counseling, and just so happens to be married interracially:

(Click the link below to listen)

Why are Some Black Men so Overt in their Disapproval of Black Women in Interracial and/or intercultural relationships?

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34 Comments leave one →
  1. June 3, 2010 1:14 am

    I am only getting one minute and 37 secs. Seems answer was cut off.

    Men focus on power and control. They are also competitive. Remember, to bring up a sad subject, the hypocrisy of WM during slavery and Jim Crow. The disparity between WM’s prerogatives in seeking IR sex (really sexual predation in most cases) and what WW were allowed, make the current double standard upheld by some BM look trivial. But it is a difference in degree, not kind.

    In both the historical misbehavior of some WM, and the current misbehavior of some BM, are deep roots of misogyny. Many men, of whatever race, consider women to be for the use of men, essentially to be owned and controlled by men. Not just for sex, but for procreation, status, labor, and resources. The concepts of fairness, or consideration of her wants and needs, are of no account in this way of thinking. Complaints of unfairness or unmet needs are irrelevant to someone who thinks this way. It’s all about the man and what he wants. A world completely organized around the male id.

    Many underdeveloped men (not all men) throughout history and everywhere in the world have thought this way BECAUSE THEY COULD. You can not reason or shame someone out of selfishness, if they don’t have empathy. It’s important to understand just how profound this is, and how little leverage you have to deal with it. Don’t try to fix these attitudes in a man, unless you have access to overwhelming force … in other words, don’t try. Better to protect yourself and find ways to avoid the confrontation.

  2. June 3, 2010 4:47 am

    Well said AB!!

    Evia talked about this a while back. It has nothing to do with black women but everything to do with but the perceived relationships between black men and white men.

    Until they (black men) resolve that, whatever that is, black men will continue to have such struggles.

    Just as AB said, there’s no sense in trying to figure out the why…just keep it moving and protect yourself and focus on your own happiness!!

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 3, 2010 8:08 am

      Selena, it’s interesting that both you and AB say to protect yourself, but what does that really mean? Avoid places where black men gather? Turn the other way when you see one coming? I think it’s important for BW who are reading this post and are just emerging into interracial dating need to have some clarity on what it means to “protect yourself.”

  3. Pamela permalink
    June 3, 2010 5:04 am

    I totally agree that the problem is misogyny, pure and simple. It may manifest in different ways depending on the group of people. It boils down to the idea that women are the property of men and they must be available regardless of their desire. Women have no right to decide what they want or who they want to be with. LEAVE THOSE TYPE OF MEN ALONE. I also avoided places (was able to) where I could be in a vulnerable position when dating my husband. We just do not frequent places where we could be harassed.

    However I totally understand this is a research project and analysis will be done. However I could care less about ANYONE that does not like what I do in life. I leave the rascals alone and live it to the full. I guess living more than a few years gets you to that place:)

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 3, 2010 8:14 am

      Yes, Pamela. I also would avoid places were I thought certain men might be confrontational when I was dating my husband too.

  4. Kola Boof permalink
    June 3, 2010 7:25 am

    I can’t put it any better than the gentleman above me just put it.

    He’s 100% correct.

    My advice is that the only way to change a man is to leave him. And
    in many cases, Black Women don’t have many choices. You HAVE to leave
    what is not there for you in the first place.

    MY LOYALTY…as an African Nilotic Woman…is to my Womb.

    I refused, all my life, to be without a man. I married a Wonderful BLACK MAN.
    But whenever Black men passed me by, I dated men who were not Black.

    • boomer babe permalink
      August 4, 2010 8:53 am

      Youre 110% right; the only way to change a man IS to leave him. Men love a challenge and cant stand when women get too clingy. Have you seen the movie (an old one) A PLACE IN THE SUN?

      • boomer babe permalink
        August 4, 2010 8:55 am

        and also the movies DREAMGIRLS and WAITING TO EXHALE?

  5. randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
    June 3, 2010 8:15 am

    Does anyone think that the “shame” factor that the psychologist mentioned may play a factor in the lashing out?

  6. MadamCJCPA permalink
    June 3, 2010 1:00 pm

    I don’t believe it has anything to do with shame as Claire mentioned that is just an excuse to coddle these mens’ egos. I truly believe it has to do with power plan and simple. Economics prove that when there is an over abundance of demand the supplier holds the power.
    Black women outnumber black men; now subtract out those that are incarcerated, gay, or already married, soon that number becomes even smaller. The fact that many womens’ biological clocks start ticking once they hit their 30’s makes them more desperate and gives black men double the power.
    The media has brainwashed men (particulary young men in their 20’s) that black women are a commodity to be purchased, used, and abused. How else do you explain the numerous hip-hop/rap videos with the scantily-clad black women and lyrics that consistently describe us in such derogatory labels as “bitches & hos.”
    When black men see black women dating other men of other races, it is then that they are faced with the harsh reality that level of demand for their product has dropped, and thereby in association they have lost a portion of their semblance of power. If you think about it, if more black women date and marry men of other races that forces many black men to re-think their strategy for attracting and keeping a black woman interested in him; because he knows at the end of the day if he doesn’t treat her right she has a world (pun intended) of options available to her.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 3, 2010 1:19 pm

      “When black men see black women dating other men of other races, it is then that they are faced with the harsh reality that level of demand for their product has dropped, and thereby in association they have lost a portion of their semblance of power. If you think about it, if more black women date and marry men of other races that forces many black men to re-think their strategy for attracting and keeping a black woman interested in him; because he knows at the end of the day if he doesn’t treat her right she has a world (pun intended) of options available to her.”

      Excellent point. So if we looked at the interracial marriage issue conversely, meaning we have BW dating interracially en masse, perhaps it would force black men to become more “marriageable.” Interesting…

    • Ahuva permalink
      June 6, 2010 3:24 am

      @ Madam CJCP What you said here:

      When black men see black women dating other men of other races, it is then that they are faced with the harsh reality that level of demand for their product has dropped, and thereby in association they have lost a portion of their semblance of power. If you think about it, if more black women date and marry men of other races that forces many black men to re-think their strategy for attracting and keeping a black woman interested in him; because he knows at the end of the day if he doesn’t treat her right she has a world (pun intended) of options available to her

      IS SO RIGHT ON. I think in black men there is this sense of entitlement they feel to black women that even if they do not want them, that no one else should want them either. I had a friend who was out to dinner with a black male friend of hers and they saw an interracial couple (BW/WM) having dinner next to them. Throughout dinner her friend kept expressing disgust at the sight of them and made several snide comments throughout the evening. My friend asked him what his problem was and he expressed his dislike of “her” with “him”. So my friend asked him that if she were not with him would he be interested and his response was no becasue she was not his type. it baffled my friend that if he were not interested in her shy did he care who she was with? I had another friend who was at a club with girlfiend and they were sitting next to 4 black men who ignored them all evening. Then when two handsome italians approached them to chat, ALL OF A SUDDEN the brothas were interested and were tying to holla at my friend and her friend. They ignored them and continued to talk to the italian men becasue they knew that at that point it was not about them, but the black men’s need to “prove” they still have the upper hand over “their” women.

      I think that another black men get upset when they see a bw with a man of another race especially white men is that they have gotten comfortable with the black womans “loyalty” to them and the black community thereby freeing them to go out and play becasue they know that the bw is “minding th store” so to speak in her role not as the mothers of the community, but more like the mules, carrying the burdens and sacrificing their chances at happiness by not expanding their options, believing that if they stay the course the BM will “come around”. These men seeing these bw dating out sends a clear message to them that the bw are no no longer waiitng around for them and are not allowing themselves to be ignored and mis-treated by the BM anymore and their “anger” reveals a deeper issue, FEAR.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 6, 2010 8:54 am

        This is an excellent analysis–and a common theme that I’m hearing from women. Clutch magazine recently did an article where they interviewed various BM regarding their attitudes about dating outside the race. Some were reasonable, others were downright ignorant. Nonetheless, good read.

    • June 7, 2010 10:57 am

      “if more black women date and marry men of other races that forces many black men to re-think their strategy for attracting and keeping a black woman interested in him; because he knows at the end of the day if he doesn’t treat her right she has a world (pun intended) of options available to her.”

      Unfortunately I don’t things will ever reach that point. Even though alot of bw are now expanding their options, there will always be the loyal crew who would never think of dating a man that wasn’t black, along with others who can’t see past their family’s and friend’s disapproval to choose a viable mate regardless of color. They may be temporarily upset but there will always be a bevy of bw in the wings for him to ‘own’.

      • MadamCJCPA permalink
        June 8, 2010 12:21 pm

        “Unfortunately I don’t things will ever reach that point. Even though alot of bw are now expanding their options, there will always be the loyal crew who would never think of dating a man that wasn’t black, along with others who can’t see past their family’s and friend’s disapproval to choose a viable mate regardless of color.”

        While this may be true the after effects will be the same situation for black men in the future that many black women are facing today.
        “Where do I find a SUITABLE mate?”
        The entire controversy of black men dating out is that many of them are successful and educated. Well, if every female equivalent of that one successful and educated black male dated and married out then the numbers would be even.
        Everyday I see the change in the air; college is a perfect example (female-to-male ratio is 65%-to-35% at my school, and blacks are 5% of the population) black males on a college campus especially a non-HBCU are a rarity, and many of my friends (black, white, asian, & hispanic) are hardcore about finding a man that can match them on all levels (academically, intellectually, and financially). I give it another decade; by 2020 BW/non-BM relationships will be just as prevalent as BM/WW relationships.

  7. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 3, 2010 2:52 pm

    Well, I’ll tell you one reason that our “brothers” get all up in our faces when we date out, and that is, BECAUSE THEY CAN.

    Other black men and other black women either tolerate it or actively encourage it, so these self-appointed “black community police” feel no hesitation in telling us how we should act or feel. They know that there will be zero negative consequences for them when they bully and castigate the sisters that want something besides a black man, so they fire away.

    Zero chance of downside and some potential upside regarding reaction from other members of the heavily damaged “black community”? Hell yeah, why wouldn’t they act out like petulant little 12 year-olds?

    And, meanwhile, half of these SAME GUYS are doing their best to get some atention from Becky or Lupe or Miss Anna Chang, or, any other woman that is NOT a black woman.

    These same guys view black women as simply a default option; a perpetual “Plan B” to have sex with, impregnate, and then abandon while they’re marking time, casting their net outside the “black community” for a non-black woman. Someone to get serious with, to display like a prize, a woman to commit to and honor.

    But does any of this prevent them from jumping up and down when they a black woman dating a man of another race? No indeed, no indeed.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 3, 2010 2:59 pm

      Preach.

      • boomer babe permalink
        August 4, 2010 9:05 am

        and its always the dark black woman they tend to use, or they have dark kids by her. I’m not dark or light im in the middle but ive seen what they done and said about them. The pro-black Afrocentric dudes are the WORST. They will marry a light skinned, straight haired girl in a second, but will impregnate the black girl and leave her to planned parenthood to deal with.

  8. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 3, 2010 3:32 pm

    <<<<>>>>>

    Exactly, randomthoughts.

    If these clowns had some competition, they’d have to bring their game way, way up in order to attract and keep black women.

    If any black woman really feels sorry for black men as a group, then the best thing she could do in order to help that group is date men of other races. Right? Competition improves the quality of goods available in the marketplace, right? We should be doing everything we can to help black men improve themselves and their chances for a happy, fulfilling relationship. We should all date out.

    Yeah, I’m typing this tongue-in-cheek, but really, if black women made black men compete for them out in the big wide world, among men of all races, instead of just “in the hood”, where they only compete with other no-account, shiftless “brothers”, most black men would not stand a chance in the dating and mating game. Black women, like other women, would choose other races of men to marry.

    Fairy tale, you exclaim?

    Nope, some sisters are getting the idea. And quick.

    http://bettychambers.com/?p=208

    A couple of drops, then a trickle, and before you know it, a roaring river of black women dating out, fed by all these years of discontent and being told to “settle”, to just shut up and take it, to be both a mammy and a mule, etc.

    Great day in the morning, sisters!

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 3, 2010 4:59 pm

      Consider yourself linked!

  9. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 3, 2010 3:37 pm

    “Excellent point. So if we looked at the interracial marriage issue conversely, meaning we have BW dating interracially en masse, perhaps it would force black men to become more “marriageable.” Interesting…”

    This is the quote from “random thoughts” that I put in my comment above in the beginning of the comment, and the one I was referring to when I responded, “Exactly”.

    I guess those arrows I put on either side as brackets made the quote go away when I posted it. Apologies, everyone. It makes my reply to her look a little disjointed when you can’t read her previous comment first.

  10. caridad permalink
    June 3, 2010 4:24 pm

    Honestly, even if black men “suddenly” woke up and started to appreciate us black women, I still wouldn’t go back. The ship has sailed for me,”Waving goodbye”.

  11. June 3, 2010 5:24 pm

    What was the question?
    Oh.
    My husband is bi-racial and most brothers seem “standoffish” until they learn that he’s not “Mexican” but “black”! Then it’s usually… “What’s up sistah?”
    Either way…I’m still two Seinfeld reruns and a Barnes and Noble trip from losing MY black gurl card anyway!

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 3, 2010 5:30 pm

      LOL…my card is indeed also in jeopardy!

    • June 8, 2010 7:57 pm

      Like the British say, ‘Stuff(or sod) the card’

  12. Ali permalink
    June 4, 2010 3:46 am

    I just want to say that though all this is prob. true, it’s not the best reason to date outside your race – do it because you can! Because it’s normal and healthy and fun in a multiracial society.

    I just don’t want to see many black woman fall into this thing where non-black men are a ‘plan b’ – since black men are so _______, I’ll go outside the race. No other group of women do this. I certainly wouldn’t want to be any guy’s ‘plan b’! Would you?

    I also don’t want to set up a situation where black men see they’re losing their upper hand, so they make a few cosmetic changes, say ‘queen’ and ‘we gotta stick together’ a few times, and black women go running back in droves. NO. I want to see this be a permant thing for black women. The ‘black love’ thing has been a terrible trap that’s kept so many from acheiving their full potential. Let’s end it permantly.

    Don’t make interracial dating about ‘improving’ black men. You may a connection to your father or brother, but the avergae black man on the street is not your ‘brother’ – he’s a stranger who should have nothing to do with you and how YOU live your life.

    Make it about you! In the end, they will have to learn how to improve themselves – it’s not my job. I don’t care if the ‘wake up’! And neither should you.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 4, 2010 8:15 am

      Well said!

  13. June 4, 2010 4:11 pm

    Amen, Ali. The decision to date/marry IR should have nothing to do with black men.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 4, 2010 4:20 pm

      Thanks for visiting, Lormarie. I just saw your blog. Good stuff. Can we swap blog rolls?

  14. beautifulbrown permalink
    June 5, 2010 9:10 pm

    well today i was scrolling through my Fb page when i came upon this message and it said, “I hope you do find a white man who will enslave you rass and do very nasty things to you,sure hope you do.’ yep.. now this was a man who had no photo up of himself but is gonna tell me how ugly i am.. and he can just imagine what my man would do to me. now from the looks of it this man could have been in his 40s or so on.. and the thing i don get is, what do my relationship has to do with the price of rice. i mean how is that affecting.. its obvious he is not happy and need a way to get all of his tension out so a white guy with a black girl hey why not!! these men need to understand that silly little childish comments while not let me leave my man… we are here to stay… my mottos are screw all haters and live my life like its golden..

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 5, 2010 9:56 pm

      It sounds like that clod has a severe case of sour grapes. The truth is beatuifulbro, as more black women release themselves from the shackles of bearing the burden of all black men and turn in their “I Support My Black Kings!” buttons, more and more black men are feeling threatened and need to lash out…and you just happened to be on the receiving end. But what I am learning as I write my book, is that most of this animus is coming from some black men’s sense of losing power over who they perceive is “their women” who should ALWAYS be available to them to use and abuse however they wish. This is not to say that all black men are like this–many are wonderful. There’s just not enough of them to go around. Stay strong, and just remember the dude that’s making you happy, and be damned with the fool that’s trying to knock your flow.

  15. zoriansmom permalink
    June 6, 2010 6:39 pm

    Black men even the square types have grand illusions of themselves being playboys and players even some idolizing pimps so this idea that I can get any woman they all want me and all women should be available to me builds the ego the size of Texas then they see a black woman with a man non black its like someone has a pin and poked a hole in that inflated ego! Sistas aren’t trying to lower no mans self esteem were just not limiting ourselves and being open to all our options.

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