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Get Over It! Rainbow Men Like Their Women Skinny!

June 28, 2010

Rainbow men, that is, non-black guys of varying hues, tend to prefer a svelte physique.  Now before you get all huffy about having to give up your daily donuts, deep-fried Twinkies and 500-calorie mochachocalattechai (and then try to be all, “no whip cream!” about it), just hear me out.

Both sexes do all sorts of things to attract the opposite sex.  Do you skip a shower before a date?  Fart during a movie with your guy?  If you do, you need more help than what this blog can give you!

For the sake of this argument, let’s break down what black men tend to find attractive: small waist with a big ‘ol stripper booty:

Many Black Men's Ideal Figure*

BUTT!  Most of the time, a little “junk in the trunk,” often means junk in the thighs, rubbish on the arms, and a land fill on the belly.  Black men find this attractive, so many black women who want to attract those men work (or not) to increase their desirability.  A few years ago a study came out that suggested black women were much more comfortable with their body image than their white female counterparts.  Despite 78 percent of us being overweight according to the American Obesity Association, apparently it’s all good.  You know why?  C’mon guess.  BECAUSE BLACK MEN FIND BOOTY MEAT ATTRACTIVE!

Conversely, white women (as well as other nationalities  besides, perhaps, Hispanics) are VERY weight conscious.  That same study showed that a large percentage of white women were unhappy with their weight.  Just a guess, but I’ll bet the farm it’s because white men tend to prefer a body type like this:

I don't care what color you are, that body is healthy and hawt!

So, it looks like both black women and white women tie their feelings about body image according to what the men of that race prefer.

I remember talking to someone at a mall I worked that was predominately frequented by African Americans.  My co-worker, who was young, small-waisted and a butt that looked like two basketballs fighting for space in her spandex, often told me that she was willing to do some exercises, but her boyfriend warned her not to do anything that would reduce her ass size.  She was happy to accomodate him.

So then, why are so many black women bent out of shape when rainbow men express their preference for thin women, in word and deed?  Why the resistance to accomodate them if we want to attract them?

On a post yesterday regarding the best/worst places in the world to have an interracial relationship, Ali went a little off topic to discuss how a friend of hers thought NYC was not conductive to her interracial dating prospects:

“This prob. belongs under another post, but I have a cousin who says NYC is bad for bw/wm interracial dating! NYC! The reason is, she’s never been asked out by a white guy. When I tell her I have, lots of times, she says – oh, you’ve just been lucky . . . . .What I’ve failed to mention is this – she’s nearly 250 POUNDS! And yet that doesn’t occur to her that that’s the problem. She blames her lack of interracial dates on her race – she says it’s because white guys are racist!”

For me, exercise and I go through stages. I get really gung-ho and then after a while I give the whole thing a heave-ho. But as I grow older I realize the necessity of being consistent with working out, because I have an almost irrational fear of arms that flap like wings while waving in a tank top. But money is tight and the gym is just a little too far, and frankly, I don’t see the point in having shower, brush my teeth and comb my hair to only become disheveled in some frenetic Tai Bo-hip hop-kick boxing-thingamajig workout class. So that’s why I do Barry’s Boot Camp and drink my fruits and vegetables with the help of my Vita Mix.  And you know what?  I’ll be working on keeping my body fit and healthy, first, because I don’t want to get diabetes like my mother, take high blood pressure pills like my dad did, and frankly, shopping at Lane Bryant will never turn me on no matter how cute they make those fat dummies look in their clothes!  And finally, I’ll do it because I know my husband likes me that way, and I love him and want to be desirable to him as he wishes to stay desirable to me, which is why Hair Club For Men will get a new client if his hairline recedes one more centimeter!  :)

Now, I realize that I may have ruffled some feathers with this post, but ladies, we MUST face the truth, stop making excuses, and get ourselves fit, happy, sexy and healthy.  And if a rainbow man thinks you’re hot after all that effort, then all the better.

180 Comments leave one →
  1. Sharon permalink
    June 28, 2010 6:59 pm

    Eek!!
    Is that first photo real?

    • Tia permalink
      June 28, 2010 10:50 pm

      Yes, the pic is real. That is none other than Buffy the Body, video vixen and actress (she was Big Booty Judy in the movie ATL-no, I didn’t watch the movie, I just heard about it.) It’s been speculated that she has gotten butt injections, but she denies it. No photoshopping with her, other than to minimize the appearance of any cellulite. Her butt is just that big-and it is very likely that she got it with some unnatural assistance.

  2. randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
    June 28, 2010 7:03 pm

    lol…i think so. I saw a woman at the mall once who had a booty just like that and the brothers where following her down the hall like she giving out free gold chains.

    • June 28, 2010 8:42 pm

      LOL! I think the photo’s fake. It’s been Photoshopped (being a graphic person) and the junk in the trunk is unrealistic biologically in proportion to her body, not unless she’s an absolute freak of nature.

      I learned a few weeks ago that women are getting but injections, many in Hollywood and around the country who subscribe to this thick everything just for the sake of being someone they’re not. It’s the instant fat booty in 30 seconds, almost literally. I do believe that the Barbie doll, body dismorphia syndrome (which is a real syndrome), is killing our people’s sense of worth.

      We need to strive to be happy with ourselves but also healthy. If being healthy means losing the butt, then do it! I think it’s rather disgusting that there’s this emphasis with black men on butts. Our young men are being taught this as if it’s the substance of a black woman’s worth, or any woman for that matter. I know since I’ve had children my body has changed and I can’t get back that weight trained bod I used to have without surgery, but I am happy with myself and do watch what I eat…and I also know if my butt gains 10lbs I will throw my back out.

      And back to the girl’s but…it looks like she’s hiding something in her crack :-O

    • Hodan permalink
      June 29, 2010 7:44 am

      loooool, you guys are hilarious. Thank God I don’t have that kind of a$$, could not handle it with such temptation. I have to say thou, white men depending on their ‘ethnicity’ shall we say do love junk in the trunk as the old school saying goes. After all, women like Jennifer Lopez and SScarlett Johansson who have more meat on their body, albeit fit would not be considered sexy by many white men.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 8:10 am

        I agree with that. The problem is that most body types don’t allow for one specific body area to be…uhrm…robust, while other parts are slim. It’s rare. Unlike the photo depicted in the blog and the actresses you mentioned, a but like that comes with a whole lot of junk EVERYWHERE.

  3. June 28, 2010 7:06 pm

    Thank you so much for posting this! Black women need to understand this important post before jumping to ridiculous conclusions about nonblack men not approaching them. Do you remember the Tyra Banks episide where the black woman was crying because nonblack men didn’t approach her, lo and behold this lady was at least 50 pounds overweight. Let’s face it, ladies, fat won’t cut it on the IR scene. The question is, how can overweight bw (who prefer IR) reach their “skinny goal” without developing an eating disorder?

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 28, 2010 7:10 pm

      That’s a good question. Now might be the time to exchange fitness tips. I may even get someone in here to discuss the unique challenges black women face when facing their weight issues. Thanks for the idea, LorMarie!

      • Neecy permalink
        June 28, 2010 7:46 pm

        Hey Random,

        i know some people in the Non Black community that would say the sister in 2nd picture with the caption “this is a hawt weight” would say she is “fat”. So I think its really important for BW to also be able to decifer the crazies that say anything over a size 2 or 6 is fat from the reality of what is really being overweight fat.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 7:08 am

      It’s easy to get healthy without an eating disorder. These days there so*** many ways to get to a healthy size. I myself do not like options such as surgery or extreme diets. It seems with those options, weight loss is temporary. In most cases, for permanent weight loss, you need to make a lifestyle change!

      For workouts, I believe anything goes! You don’t have to just do one particular thing to lose weight. All that matters is that you keep moving. My favorites: aerobics (esp dance aerobics), walking/jogging, salsa/merengue/bachata dancing, pilates, yoga, and kickboxing. There are many more options that I can mention later if you like.

      As for eating, as I said I hate extreme diets, I just believe in eating better overall. Basically eating less unhealthy foods and eating more of the good stuff. You will be surprise what works for some people. Some people lose weight just from drink water instead of sodas. I wish I could into more detail but I don’t want to write a book on here lol

      Maybe we should have a separate blog entry for that :) I love talking about fitness and eating better.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 8:17 am

        And Elaine, perhaps you might like to contribute to that post. Because of this huge response, I think we need to take a more activist role in helping other BB&W members overcome weight and health issues, not solely to snag a mate, but to fend off disease, stay looking younger longer, positive self image, energy, and…hotness. :)

  4. Neecy permalink
    June 28, 2010 7:22 pm

    ****DISCLAIMER*** I am not where I want to be yet physically but I am working on it.

    NOOW having said that—

    Hey it is what it is. Most men don’t want a FAT woman. I also believe most men don’t want a bone skinny woman either. They like them in between without mid section fat and excessive fat in other areas. if BW want to cross the color lines they will have to learn to try to appeal to what men of those races prefer. And yes, while there are some men who like women a little large and meaty, I find that in order for a woman or BW especially to have more options, she will need to be in good physical shape. Most men like to see curves on a woman in the right places. but being overweight is simply to most men not healthy looking or attractive.

    I right now won’t even go online to dating sites yet until I reach my weight goals, b/c I feel that if I am going to put myself out there to COMPETE for a mate with other women who are doing their best to look good and attract the same kinds of men I am trying to attract, I need to bring it. I cannot go into the dating arena half stepping and thinking I am going to get the man I want when other women and other races are also competing for these men. Its just reality. The dating game for women today is very competitive. Being overweight knocks you out of the arena.

    Now I don’t believe that all BW have to work to achieve some crazy small size. We all should not be working to be a size 2, 4 or 6. Great if your body type calls for you being a size 2,4 or 6. but some of us look our best at a size 7,8,9 or 10 or 12. Some people say size 12 is a chicken dinner or two away from being fat. Size 14 is typically when you start entering overweight arena. Now I am not saying you can’t look good at a size 14, but for most people you are now somewhat overweight b/c you have to go to plus size sections to find clothes. YES I have been there myself. So I am not some bone skinny sistas trying to hate on the plus size. I am still borderline plus size myself working my way down to my normal size (7/8-9/10).

    Your body type will ultimately determine the BEST healthiest size for you. We all look different at different weight and sizes. but we also know what is healthy and fit for us and what isn’t. Once you start shopping in the plus size section, you have entered into the danger zone. And let’s face it I have had to shop in the plus size stores when I gained my weight a few years ago, and frankly the clothes are waaaaaay too expensive! That in and of itself should be a motivation to slim down so you can shop at the regular stores that are not specialized for a certain size.

    I don’t think there is a universal guide that you can place on individuals when it comes to looking good and healthy but I can say this: We all know what looks too big and unhealthy. if you have a big stomach or large mid section that sticks out or is super flabby – not only is that NOT attractive, but its simply NOT healthy. I am working on my mid section area as well as other areas. I gained a lot of weight a few years ago b/c I was going through a very emotional and stressful situation, but now its time to stop making excuses and get busy. People who have excess weight in the mid section are at higher risks for heart disease b/c of the inflammation that occurs in the mid section. I sold statins (cardiovascular drugs) and there is scientific data that proves this – inflammation is one of the biggest causes of heart disease and future heart attacks. It is what it is.

    So in essence, I think BW need to realize that being overweight is simply not healthy and people ALWAYS look their best when they are at their proper weight.

    So sisters, let’s just recognize that there is major competition in the dating market for all men, and one has to bring her A GAME when putting ourselves out there. And the first part of it, is making sure we are at a healthy and attractive weight :)

    • Keeshea permalink
      June 28, 2010 8:51 pm

      I agree to a small degree. You really can’t pigeon hole a man’s desire. A man likes what he likes. I’ve seen bone skinny white man AND physically fit white man with BW that could stand to loose about 30 pounds.

      But BM don’t like an overweight woman either.

      I believe woman (and men) should just get in shape so they won’t get tired in the bedroom.

  5. Neecy permalink
    June 28, 2010 7:38 pm

    LorMarie : The question is, how can overweight bw (who prefer IR) reach their “skinny goal” without developing an eating disorder?

    Having been plus size myself, I think its safe to say that anything over a size 12 is IMO plus size/overweight. I say this b/c once you hit a size 14 you are now shopping in “specialized” stores for your size. If you have an hourglass figure (like I have) and are well porportioned at size 12 you REEEAAALY gotta watch it. Not saying size 12 can’t look amazing on some of us, but its borderlining the plus size if you have a tendency to be curvy (like myself). I call that the chicken dinner away from being overweight size. LOL.

    Overall i think the important key is that BW understand what looks and feels best to them. Sometimes though, you do have to give some people guidelines b/c they walk around thinking obese is shapely and healthy. but if you are a realistic person, you know what is the best size for oneself. I do not subscribe to the UNIVERSAL guidelines and numbers for what size one should be based on weight (for the most part). of course 200lbs is obese for any woman. that’s a no brainer. but what I am saying is for example, my body type is hourglass and I carry my weight very evenly and very proportionally. I actually look smaller than my weight suggests. Even being slightly overweight, people always assume I am much smaller than my weight suggests. But with my shape I have to be very careful b/c hourglass can turn into…well OBESITY if its not managed correctly.

    So I know what looks good and healthy and fit for me. And that is 140. b/C of my age I may shoot for 130-135 but nothing lower than that. but the universal weight guidelines say I should be between 115-120 for my weight based on my height. NO WAY! I would look like a sickly crackhead. LOL

    Everywoman knows what weight looks best on her and at what weight she looks and feels healthiest. But sometimes you do need guidelines b/c you got some sisters thinking 220 is “aight” and shapely. NOT!

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 28, 2010 7:48 pm

      Be sure to come back to flaunt that body once you reach your goal weight! We wanna see! We wanna seeeeeeee!!!

  6. Neecy permalink
    June 28, 2010 7:50 pm

    Oh believe me I’ll be posting pics all over the place. I may need someone to “reel me in” LOL. I just may be that girl who overdoes it when they suddenly lose all the weight they want to lose. *praying I don’t go buy booty shorts and heels* lol sigh….

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 28, 2010 7:55 pm

      I bought some booty shorts, but the heels…I just…can’t…

  7. randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
    June 28, 2010 7:54 pm

    Neecy :

    Hey Random,

    i know some people in the Non Black community that would say the sister in 2nd picture with the caption “this is a hawt weight” would say she is “fat”. So I think its really important for BW to also be able to decifer the crazies that say anything over a size 2 or 6 is fat from the reality of what is really being overweight fat.

    You’re right. Those people are crazy. I’ll get right on them once they finish throwing up their dinner in the bathroom.

  8. June 28, 2010 8:10 pm

    Your poll is flawed; the answers are too targeted.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 28, 2010 8:12 pm

      Got a better list? Let hear it!

  9. June 28, 2010 8:21 pm

    What about the Paul Wall/Bubba Sparx type of white men that like their black women juicy?

  10. allie permalink
    June 28, 2010 8:23 pm

    How sad that your article has generalized every ”rainbow man’s” preference! I was a size 0 when I met my husbad, and I’m not a size 0 anymore. My man LOVES my new body! I on the other hand am NOT diggin this fat suit, and am working on getting my old body back. I realize that I will NEVER be a size 0 again, and at my age a 0 isn’t the healthiest size for me. But to say that skinny is better is not cool. If he loves you he’ll love ALL of you, even that extra bit.

    • June 28, 2010 8:30 pm

      Thank you; I feel the exact same way. I am a rather well proportioned size 14/16 (losing weight), and I have rarely encountered difficulties because I am “overweight and not of the man’s color”. If a guy doesn’t dig black girls, he doesn’t dig black girls; if he doesn’t dig overweight or larger women, then he doesn’t dig overweight girls. No man, of any color, digs obesity; it is unhealthy and it is programmed in them biologically to seek out a healthy mate.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 28, 2010 8:31 pm

      I’ve never advocated being a size zero, and neither have the posters. Yes, if a man loves you, he’ll love all of you, but good luck finding a man who loves you at 500 pounds, I don’t care what color he is. I understand this message is harsh, but there is truth in it, and shouldn’t be dismissed outright because “the poll is flawed” or people are interpreting my message as an advocation to take up an eating disorder. Let’s not go to extremes here. We’re all trying to help each other.

      • June 28, 2010 8:38 pm

        Yes, but are all black women 500 pounds? Come on now. It’s not just about the fact that you’re saying that women have to be in good shape to find a mate; it’s not about a harsh message; it’s about the fact that your point is off as is its delivery. I advocate people living healthy lifestyles and doing better for themselves, and one of my goals is to become a fitness model and personal trainer, so please trust that I don’t think the message is hard. But as a previous commenter said, if one is competing for dates, one has to realize that it is a competition and no matter what color man you’re chasing, you need to be on your a game.

        My issue with your poll is entirely separate, as it is limited and therefore cannot collect completely valid data or viewpoints from your viewers.

    • June 28, 2010 8:33 pm

      I have also been in size 16 range the majority of my life, I forgot to note.

    • MadamCJCPA permalink
      June 29, 2010 12:06 pm

      Allie, I don’t think she is blindly generalizing. However, in America and other places as well the majority will always speak for the minority. So if 7 out of 10 men prefer FIT (this does NOT equate SKINNY) women then it stands to reason that one would come to the conclusion that MOST (this does not equate ALL) men prefer smaller women. This conclusion in my opinion is logical and holds merit.

      I came to the same conclusion myself ten years ago and I am a plus-size woman myself. I believe Christielyn and she is free to correct me if I am wrong, the point of the post was to let black women know that if they want to have their “pick of the litter” this is but ONE step to achieve that goal.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 12:33 pm

        Ding Ding!

  11. June 28, 2010 8:25 pm

    Something less vapid and more open-ended. The no answers are especially too targeted, because although a user might think no, she doesn’t necessarily have to be skinny to select that option. The first option for no is also flawed, in that one doesn’t have to think, per se, that their options are precluded to “no, but…”. Your options are essentially “yes, because I’m fat”, “no, but me being fat keeps me from getting dates”, or “no, because I’m skinny”.

    The yes answer should also either be fragmented, or simply yes, no, and possibly other with the option to allow your users to explain more in the comments below.

  12. Elaine permalink
    June 28, 2010 8:34 pm

    I believe that while a woman who is grossly obese *may* have a hard time dating (with anyone, not just nonblack men), I do think that a woman does not have to and should not get thin just to “attract” non-black men (or any man). My thinking is this: if you are happy with yourself, have self-confidence and self-respect, that decent men of any race will see that and be attracted to that. I’m never down with the idea that we should change ourselves just to attract men. If you want to lose weight for yourself (whether for health, aesthetics, or both), then that’s what you should do. I’ve seen some overweight and obese women who don’t have problems dating decent men, interracially or otherwise. The difference is these women *love* themseleves, know their worth, and they are *not* sitting on the sidelines feeling sorry for themselves. Actually this advice works for skinny women as well. I myself want to lose weight for me because while I’m not obese, I am afraid that if I continue down the path I’m going (and giving family history), I may become more overweight or obese.

    P.S. Weight alone is mostly *not* why some black women feel they “can’t” date interracially. One most factor in opportunity, level of comfort around other races, confidence/self-esteem level of the women etc. These same women probably have issues dating men of any race, let alone dating interracially.

    • Neecy permalink
      June 29, 2010 1:00 am

      Elaine :I believe that while a woman who is grossly obese *may* have a hard time dating (with anyone, not just nonblack men), I do think that a woman does not have to and should not get thin just to “attract” non-black men (or any man). My thinking is this: if you are happy with yourself, have self-confidence and self-respect, that decent men of any race will see that and be attracted to that. I’m never down with the idea that we should change ourselves just to attract men. .

      I tried to tell myself this for the longest. And frankly, I was not meeting or getting the guys I wanted. Elaine, I hear you to a certain point and in reality that all sounds good. IT SHOULD be that way, but honestly most of the time it isn’t. The fact is we ALL (or at least the people successfully dating and finding love) do things to attract the opposite sex. its just nature. men have to do things as well to attract the opposite sex. And that starts with the PHYSICAL. Because that is what people see first. Everything else comes after that unless you are friends with someone and over time develop an intimate relationship.

      In online dating (which is where most BW – especially the ones in late 20’s and above) are venturing to find Non BM) you don’t necessarily have the personality, confidence self esteem factor to push (AT FIRST). Its your PICTURE and how you look that will ultimately be the determining factor on whether or not a man wants to get to know you further. Its not fair, but reality is MEN are visual creatures before they are anything else. This is not to say there are not decent males of any race who are attracted to women who are shapely with meat on their bones, who have confidence etc. But that pool is A LOT smaller than the pool of men who universally and generally like a healthy in shape looking woman.

      I think the idea around blogs like this is not to point the finger and yell “you’re fat and you won’t get a date if you don’t loose the weight” but rather, THIS is what the reality is IF you are looking to be active in the dating arena. You increase your odds of finding men of other races by being at a weight that they typically prefer. If you take a woman with a shapely figure who is a size 14/16 to a woman who is also shapely at a size 7/8 or 9/10 or even 11/12 most men will go for the latter women over the former who looks somewhat more fit/smaller and has less body fat. It just is what it is. trust me, I am not small or where I want to be by any means. I am still borderline plus size working on getting down to my normal weight.

      While I believe all women should be confident and feel good about themselves, we shouldn’t do it to the point that we become delusional. We should always be aware of what attracts the opposite sex. it benefits women in this society to be deemed as attractive and feminine. not just for dating but in all areas. its not fair! But…….

      And that is what the dating arena is about – increasing your options to land the most desirable mate. Women are judged based on our dating market value. And dating market value to men = attractive universal/healthy feminine (without fat) weight and femininity factor. Its sh!tty but that’s what it is. And if a BW is now (especially in her 30′s) looking to hopefully land a husband or a sig other, she has to be at her BEST. And putting yourself in the dating market means plainly – you need to be at a healthy attractive weight (whatever that is for that individual) to attract MORE males and have more to choose from.

      An overweight woman is limited, because there are less males who prefer overweight women than prefer fit or healthy in shape women. And sad to say, when you are a BW working against really strong negative stereotypes in general, you really need to be on top of things when it comes to presenting yourself in the dating arena. *shrugs*

      • Elaine permalink
        June 29, 2010 5:48 am

        I hear what you saying, but I just do not like that the advice is, if you’re *fat* that you need to lose weight or change ourselves in other ways *just* because most men don’t want a overweight/obese women. Naw, son! I can never get with that line of thinking. I wish I can say what I want to say, but I going to keep it nice.

        I think it is dangerous to lump all group of non-white men (or black men) into one category, I think that’s insulting. Just like all [black] women are different, so are they. Some may like overweight women, some may want healthy, and some may want the Calista Flockharts of the world. My thing is we shouldn’t care what THEY like, but what WE like. It’s a dangerous thing to tailor our bodies just for the sake of men. That’s why you got a bunch of women that are looking like idiots with enormous boobs, a 1 inch lipo’d waist, and a padunkadunk times 100. Let me put it this way, there are men that love the hourglass shape. So what about the apples, pears, and rulers of the world? Should we go through drastic measures to change our shape to attract men? I think not! [yea, yea I know it's not the same thing but work with me here].

        In any event, given men have different tastes (skinny, fat, healthy, big boobs and/or big butt) it would be hard to make a case of “just get skinny” to get a man, because it may not be the case. A woman should “get skinny”, stay the same, or gain weight ONLY if you sees fit and if that would make her happy. To me when a woman is not happy with herself, be fat, skinny, or in between, it really shows in her dating habits. Believe me I’ve seen it happen.

        This is coming from a woman who was a stick thin teen who decided to eat her way to voluptuousness to “attract” men and learned the hard way that this isn’t the way to get men. I got men black, latino, indian, etc races interested (a little to much) but I was not happy. As I get older and wiser, I see this differently. [Some] black women need to take control of our own bodies and know what is good for them and what’s not. It’s like [some] have not change. First we do everything to get/please white men, and now it’s get/please white, latino, asian by doing __________. The message we should tell each other: Do what makes YOU happy. GET HEALTHY FOR YOUR OWN SAKE. MAKE THAT LIFESTYLE CHANGE TO MAKE *YOU* HAPPY IF NEEDED.

        Let me tell ya, I’ve only live 24 years on this earth, but I have seen many an interracial couple. Of all shapes and sizes. A man may want this perfect ideal image, but that doesn’t men they will marry that person. Just like I would LOVE to be marry to an Adam Rodriguez type, however I would so marry a George Lopez or Kevin James if he had all the major qualities that I want in a man.

        If certain women feel they need to lose weight for men, then I hope that works out for them. However, that is not the message *I* want to give to my fellow sistas of any color.

      • Browncow permalink
        June 29, 2010 6:44 am

        “GET HEALTHY FOR YOUR OWN SAKE. MAKE THAT LIFESTYLE CHANGE TO MAKE *YOU* HAPPY IF NEEDED.”

        That is the message I think is being muddled here. The ladies aren’t saying change who you are to attract men. The deeper issue is being healthy for yourself and the rest will follow. I hope I’m articulating myself well enough.

  13. Browncow permalink
    June 28, 2010 8:48 pm

    Well I met my husband at size 4. That was after going to weight watchers and getting rid of 35+ pounds of bitterness. I just let myself go after a while and at my age being 108 pounds again is not going to happen. I’ll be very unhealthy. I basically just started watching what I ate and walked and the weight flew off. After I had my first baby, I lost all the weight I gained during pregnancy and then some leaving me at a size 8/10 (not bad, but not where I personally want to be). I think I got comfortable and some of the weight just came back.

    As for men, my husband was very attracted to my very smaller size when we met and still likes what he sees. His only request is not to outweigh him and I can understand that. He likes round butts too, so he says whatever I do, don’t lose that butt. I’m nowhere near the chick in photo #1, but it’s nice. I can see a lot of men going for that too, really. Some guys are just butt men. Anyways, my thing is being healthy for you. A size 14 may look damn good on another woman because of her bone structure. We aren’t all feather bones. There are a few stocky women out there and they can’t help but have a heavier bone structure, thus the size 12/14 clothes. Then there are people like me who if you gain like 5 pounds you’re in back fat land. I wish I were taller… Anyways, I feel that a size 14 isn’t a happy meal away from fat camp if she has the bone structure to carry that weight. For me, I needed to have a long talk with myself when I saw size 14, but that’s another story.

  14. June 28, 2010 8:51 pm

    Elaine :
    P.S. Weight alone is mostly *not* why some black women feel they “can’t” date interracially. One most factor in opportunity, level of comfort around other races, confidence/self-esteem level of the women etc. These same women probably have issues dating men of any race, let alone dating interracially.

    We have a winner.

  15. A.C. permalink
    June 28, 2010 9:06 pm

    THANK YOU ELAINE FOR A GREAT, NON BIASED POINT OF VIEW!!!

  16. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 28, 2010 9:07 pm

    Elaine said:

    “My thinking is this: if you are happy with yourself, have self-confidence and self-respect, that decent men of any race will see that and be attracted to that.”

    Well, that is the way things should be. But that is not the way things actually are. So the question is whether we should continue to engage in wishful thinking or realistic thinking.

    Because I guarantee that most non-black men are not going seek out a relationship with a woman who is, say, five feet, six inches tall and 200 pounds. I don’t care how much self-confidence she has, how much self-respect she has, how well she dresses, how high her self-esteem is, or how much intellect she has. Men are visual creatures and that vision doesn’t cut it for them.

    Are there exceptions? Sure. Do men stay with their wives when they gain weight to get to that height/weight ratio and do those men still love them? Sure.

    But, the truth still remains. Most non-black men are not going to be attracted to a woman that size; they’re not going to actually consider a serious relationship with a woman who looks like that. You can give yourself, or your friend that size, all the pep talks you want, it’s just not going to happen.

    I’m sorry, but that is the truth. It might not be the feel-good patter that is desired, but it is the truth.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 6:02 am

      I said what I said because I think we do ourselves a disservice for doing things for other people instead ourselves. I don’t have an issue with women losing weight for health or so that *they* can look good for *themselves*. IMHO, when we start changing just to please men, I think that sets us back a hundred years lol.

      I think the problem I see on many boards/blogs, we try to come up with this magic formula that will “attract” men,non-black or otherwise, but there is no one way. This is the REAL truth. We can sit here all day and come up with all kinds of solutions, but will any of the advice yield the desired results 100% of the time? No, because like I said men are different just like we are so it is impossible to figure out what each man will want in a woman for marriage.

      What we can change or do is think for ourselves and look deep inside to see what we want. If the goal is to lose weight, because you want to look in the mirror and say “damn, I’m fine!” or just to get healthy overrall, then that will lead you in the right direction. I feel you can NEVER go wrong with having confidence in yourself. However, ***I’ve seen this for myself many a time***, you will definitely have problems if you constantly worrying about what xyz will think and how you should change yourself for them.

  17. A.C. permalink
    June 28, 2010 9:11 pm

    And thanks Brown Cow for mentioning Bone structure and not just going off on Layne Bryant and “Fat dummies”. Each body type and structure is its own type. The point is to maintain a healthy diet, live well and stay healthy.

  18. June 28, 2010 9:21 pm

    BlkQueenBee :
    Because I guarantee that most non-black men are not going seek out a relationship with a woman who is, say, five feet, six inches tall and 200 pounds. I don’t care how much self-confidence she has, how much self-respect she has, how well she dresses, how high her self-esteem is, or how much intellect she has. Men are visual creatures and that vision doesn’t cut it for them.

    Your last sentence in this block is the key. There are some things men are willing to compromise on, and there are others they’re not. I compromised for the fact that my mate was barely five nine (when I am five ten) because he had gorgeous green eyes. (There’s actually a lot that I compromised for because of those blasted fields of green, but that’s beside the point). There are some men who will do anything white; there are some many who will do anything with big boobies.

    Hell, the Brits – white ones at that – even think that our AMERICAN white women who we think are nice sizes are fat! There’s Africans that think our black American women are fat.

    (There’s actually a lot of people who think that Americans are fat, come to think…)

    Most non-black men may not be inclined to be attracted to a woman not of his color of a certain size because they are already switching out one of the standards that they are normally comfortable with in exchange for having to take on another hit to his list that he might have otherwise been comfortable with. The same is true of men of all sorts for women of all colors.

    We all know someone who has compromised on everything with a man but when it came to the size of his boat, she abandoned ship. Some women are okay sailing houseboats, no matter what color they are, but for some only the Titanic will do. Same thing.

    • BlkQueenBee permalink
      June 28, 2010 9:32 pm

      Black, white, asian, hispanic, whatever – no matter what ethnic group the woman hails from, most non-black men are not going to go for the five-six, 200 pound woman.

      Most white men would not go for a white woman that size. Certainly, most Asian men wouldn’t go for an Asian woman that size.

      It’s just a tough thing for them to get past, that’s all. It’s a lot easier for a fat guy to get dates than a fat woman, because women can see past looks in some instances, but there are very few men possessed of that quality. Men key heavily (no pun intended) off a woman’s looks in terms of initial attractiveness, and it goes from there.

      • June 28, 2010 9:46 pm

        I agree with this. On the note about Asians, I had a boss who told me that for awhile, his sister had an eating disorder because she was just fifteen pounds overweight. It was THAT serious.

      • June 28, 2010 9:47 pm

        15 being 115 instead of 100-like.

      • lucy permalink
        August 20, 2010 5:14 pm

        Most white men go for white women, most white men prefer natural silky hair most white men prefer a woman who is paler than them most white men….
        If we stopped to think about the fact that general the number of white men who date outside their race or prefer black women are a minority, you wouldn’t even look to trying to date men of other races and we all know that some bw have dismissed dating out because of those reasons, if it was so easy you could come as you are and bw wouldn’t have to go on dating sites they could just meet guys in bars e.t.c just like a lot of bm who meet ww. Anyway going off the point.
        The point for me is that i don’t care what the f*** most white men want,you should have a healthy body for you. you can’t please everyone. There is epidemic with black hair most black women all over the world are covery their napps because the western world through colonisition and slavery said *no not prefered*. I would like to just add confidence really does make the difference, when i was younger i was attracted to white guys but they didn’t seem to respond i was confident and i didn’t think about rejection i just went for it after not getting the responce i wanted i stopped, what i notice when i got to my late teens is that the black girls who got into interacial relationships were confident they didn’t stop to think he’s not going to like my because am not white they probably met guys who didn’t like them and prefer blondes but that didn’t discourage them. I am rambling a little, but i also had a friend who was pretty but fat although had a beautiful in proportion hourglass figure she was really confident outgoing smart a bit of a teacher pet and she went out with the popular good look guys in school i think mainly because of her confidence, confidence does shine through it’s the way you carry yourself. Plus most men don’t marry Halle Berry or Giselle types they marry their wives.

  19. A.C. permalink
    June 28, 2010 9:23 pm

    “Well, that is the way things should be. But that is not the way things actually are. So the question is whether we should continue to engage in wishful thinking or realistic thinking.”

    The reality is that there are people with differing weights, bone structures, issues and challenges. Would someone not love someone because they have Cancer? Or lost a Breast due to Cancer? Or what if they were Diabetic? Would they be rejected? To say that someone would be rejected because of age, or other issues, would also unrealistic, not so?

    • BlkQueenBee permalink
      June 28, 2010 9:36 pm

      A.C., you lost me there. I think I’m missing the point you’re trying to make.

  20. June 28, 2010 9:24 pm

    I really cannot agree with this generalisation. I look like the 2nd woman and every time I tell my boo I’m going to the gym, his blood pressure drops. He is always trying to keep track of what I’m up to in the gym i.e. turning fat to muscle and not spending 1 hour on the treadmill burning calories. He tells me constantly to please not lose weight. He most certainly does not prefer a skinny woman. Of course he doesn’t prefer the 1st woman either LOL! I have met plenty of rainbow men who go on and on about the madness with rainbow women looking like stick insects and how it would be great if they could just have something to hold on to. Whatever the case may be, be fat, thin or in-between for you and not to attract a certain type of man. At the end of the day, it’s what’s within a person that counts.

  21. June 28, 2010 9:37 pm

    It seems, then, that the consensus is that men generally desire a woman who presents to him the best self she can possibly be, both emotionally, personality-wise, and physically; this case is especially elevated when dating outside of one’s color line/comfort zone, as it is already a compromise. If you are going to go outside of your comfort zone, then the risk should be worth it, yes?

  22. A.C. permalink
    June 28, 2010 9:47 pm

    “I guarantee that most non-black men are not going seek out a relationship with a woman who is, say, five feet, six inches tall and 200 pounds. I don’t care how much self-confidence she has, how much self-respect she has, how well she dresses, how high her self-esteem is, or how much intellect she has. Men are visual creatures and that vision doesn’t cut it for them.”

    To Queen Bee: Those were your words. Therefore, are you also saying that if men don’t find a woman visually attractive in the FIRST place, therefore the rest of her will be unappealing? So if a woman has lost a breast due to Cancer or has diabetes or some other ailment, does she have a chance, as you put it, “realistically” we Black women should not engage in Wishful thinking, as we should focus on weightloss and being healthy etc. But REALISTICALLY, there are women of varying bone structures, issues and challenges. Therefore,
    as previously said, “To say that someone would be rejected (by a potential mate)because of age, or other issues, would also unrealistic, not so?”

    • BlkQueenBee permalink
      June 28, 2010 10:00 pm

      So you’re saying that if a man could see, or somehow know, that a woman had diabetes when he first met her, that he might not be attracted to her? OK, I guess that could happen. I can’t imagine how he would ascertain that fact, though.

      In terms of a woman having only one breast, again, if a man could know that, I suppose that would also make some men shy away.

      Age is probably a better example since that, like weight, is readily apparent when you meet someone. And yes, I think both men and women decide that a potential partner is either too old or too young for them; it happens all the time.

      To answer the question you pose, that, “if men don’t find a woman visually attractive in the first place, therefore the rest of her will be unappealing?”, the answer is that most men don’t stick around to find out anything more about a woman if they don’t find her visually attractive. They’re men.

      And if by some chance, they do stick around long enough to get to know these other positve attributes of this woman, most men will still not be able to get over the physical part of the equation in terms of overall attraction.

  23. rain permalink
    June 28, 2010 10:06 pm

    I’ve never been skinny, never. At my fittest, I never had a problem attracting men of all hues. So, I think this generalization is just that- a generalization. I think men like beautiful and that is usually in the eye of the beholder. I’m sure Beyonce attracts more than black men as well as other women with supposedly “black” bodies. Of course being FAT puts one lower on the attractive scale but having hips, thighs & booty doesn’t neccessarily so. The term “silicone butt implants” gets well over 40k hits a month on google and certainly it isn’t black women looking to buy some extra ass and these women are attracting non-black men also, so what does that say? …

  24. June 28, 2010 10:13 pm

    I love a heated debate :-) Okay so here is my 2 cents. The most I have weighed in my 30 odd years is 120 lbs. I don’t advocate for women being overweight but I do encourage healthy eating AND exercise and being in good physical shape. Most women will never and should never be my size because they will look terrible. I believe a woman truly have to love herself and size. If you don’t then shut up and do something about it.
    In terms of men, I came fromm an island where my weight and proportions are not ideal and was told to gain some weight. There are a variety of men who love a variety of women. I truly believe that men love a body that they can hold on to not stick and bones or an overflow. I also know that being in as good physical shape as I am, I am not attracted to an overweight man and I am sure it is vice versa. Small is the ideal for non black and non hispanic men. That’s the fact of life but there are always exception to the rule.

  25. June 28, 2010 10:19 pm

    Let me add to my comment. Small is the ideal on tv, hollywood, and if a man is ask to pick a body size then he will choose the most fit; however, in reality most caucasian women who are with white men are not in shape at all or should I say not the ideal slim figure. If you don’t think so then go on a military base and you’ll know what I am talking about.

  26. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 28, 2010 10:49 pm

    And, BTW, that first photo has not been altered. That woman is Buffie Carruth and that freaky booty is all real. She has her own website, she’s been on the Tyra Banks Show, she has calendars, etc.

    Google “Buffie the Body”, and it will pull up lots of photos of her.

    • BlkQueenBee permalink
      June 28, 2010 11:02 pm

      Oops, I see Tia posted something similar regarding Buffie at almost the same exact time up top. Apologies for the duplication…

    • June 28, 2010 11:11 pm

      Hey, I know that woman. I was checking out her booty work out earlier this year when I was putting together my derrière regimen for 2010. If that’s her, it’s real allright :)

  27. lafemmenoir permalink
    June 28, 2010 11:48 pm

    I think that personally attacking anyone is childish and counterproductive, especially if that person has asked for you to provide a better way of wording said poll. We are all trying to get to the same destination (a successful relationship), so why not support each other.

    Possible changes to the poll:

    Yes. A man should accept me even if I look like the Michelin Man, because my PERSONALITY is just that fierce!

    Yes. According to statistics, EVERYONE is overweight, who do they think they are?!

    Yes. Whose to say what is a “good” weight anyways?

    No, but I don’t know where to start to lose the weight. I need help/support.

    No, but I find that my current body size is precluding a more active social life.

    Nope! Just like Becky, Su Lin, and Harnisha, I’m getting my skinny on.

    Nope! I am already ahead of you, I already got my skinny on!

    Onwards.
    We, as women, especially as black women, need to take better care of ourselves, plain and simple. A healthy diet is our friends. I remember an older female family member telling me how things were in the south for them during the great depression. She told me that they survived mainly off what they grew in their gardens and what livestock they could raise, mainly chicken and the eggs the hens laid. She lived to be a very old person, and as long as I knew her, she didn’t really eat fatty foods and she was quite slim and liked to walk everywhere. She could outwalk most people I knew. As an aside I should mention that she lived to be in her 90′s and died as the result of a homicide, not because of medical issues. She was killed by a YBM looking for drug money back in the early 90′s.

    I think that physical health is representative of mental health, whether some would agree with me or not, this is what I think. I have quite a few fat and miserable friends, but no thin miserable friends. Here’s what I mean- Friends complaining about aches, pains, and illness’ like they are 70 years old, not 30′s/40′s. The pains, joint, back, etc come from carrying more weight than your frame is supposed to to carry. The extra weight (as it pertains to my friends) comes from the stressful lives they (we) live and the things they (we) feel we have to put up with, so we in turn, turn to “comfort” foods to help cope. We gain more weight, stress even more, eat more food, and so on; a circuitous cycle, if you will. We have been conditioned to believe that “thick” is good, which is a byproduct from slavery(big strong slaves). We are no longer slaves and shouldn’t want to be slaves to an antiquated mindset. We need to evolve and adapt our thinking. (one of the other female posters mentioned this earlier- she was carrying around pain and suffering in the form of excess weight. She realized what she was doing and is now taking corrective action).

    Excess weight is never good. Never. Solution? I say those of us who really want to make changes and lose weight should band together and start a FB support group. Again, we all have similar goals, right? Why not help each other reach their goals?
    Just saying….
    How much should you weigh for your height? Here’s a start (there is a min. and a max, you should fall somewhere in between based on your age):

    http://www.apft-standards.com/femaleheightandweight.html

    The USMC weight chart has similar numbers: http://www.military.com/military-fitness/marine-corps-fitness-requirements/usmc-weight-charts

    My doctor actually referred me to these pages because I am not a BMI index fan. The data is skewed because at the time the data was collected, lots of people were starving to death (the mini ice age & world famine). I am not the only one who thinks so either: Some argue that the error in the BMI is significant and so pervasive that it is not generally useful in evaluation of health. University of Chicago political science professor Eric Oliver says BMI is a convenient but inaccurate measure of weight, forced onto the populace, and should be revised.

    Studies show that people stuff their feelings with food. There is help:

    CBT Therapy for overeating: http://www.gotosee.co.uk/healtharticles/2008/07/helping-obesity-and-weight-problems-with-cbt/
    CBT also works for depression & pain management

    Overeaters Anon: http://www.oa.org/

    Start by talking to your primary caregiver.

  28. lafemmenoir permalink
    June 29, 2010 12:04 am

    Someone made mention of a 5’6″ woman weighing 200 lbs. According to the chart (http://www.apft-standards.com/femaleheightandweight.html), she should weigh between 117 lbs and 161 lbs, depending on her age. This would mean that if she were 35 she should weigh between 117 lbs and 158 lbs. This means that all she has to do is lose 41-42 pounds and she will be within ideal range for her height/age. Now that you look at it that way it’s not so bad, right? It should appear more doable than previously thought now.

  29. MadamCJCPA permalink
    June 29, 2010 12:43 am

    I think your blog post is dead on Christielyn.

    When I was still living in Atlanta my co-worker and I discussed this very subject, because (at the time) she was trying to convince her cousin to give interracial dating a try as she was a recent college graduate and was bombing royally at finding a SINGLE (she was having an illicit affair with a married man at the time) black man that was an equal or above. She thought that because she was a size 8 that she didn’t stand a chance attracting a white man or any other non-black male for that matter (she’d been brainwashed on the whole black women are undesired blah, blah, blah). We both agreed and told her that being a size 8 will get her more attention than say a size 18. Is it unfair? Probably, but when is life ever fair? This is not to say that those women that are size 18 won’t find a suitable mate that will love them in all their curvy glory. This just means that a man she has her eye on might not be as receptive. Again is it fair? No, but as the saying goes “All is fair in love and war.”

    If women can have “deal-breakers” such as: non-college educated, unemployed, and still living in his mother’s home; (all of which are perfectly legitimate) then we as women have to be receptive and acceptive to the fact that men are going to have a list of “deal-breakers” as well.

    My girlfriends were all size 5 and I was the lone size 14 back in the day when some of us were single, and going out club hopping on the weekends. They of course were swarmed by the entire rainbow hue of males, and me not so much. Was I jealous? Yes. Did I wish I could command that type of attention? Most definitely. I however, made a conscious choice to eat the types of food that spent a “lifetime on the hips” and this while having a gym membership that I DID make use of; however, I was mostly just keeping the wolf from the door. I still managed to turn heads at a size 14 just not in the large numbers that my girlfriends did, and yes some men that I was attracted to could not get past my weight. It hurt yes, but I kept going and eventually found a man that loved my body just the way it was, and one pregnancy later and now a size 24 he still loves me. However, I am the exception, NOT THE RULE! (Courtesy of the movie “He’s Just Not That into You” based on the book based the “Sex and the City” episode).

  30. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 1:09 am

    BlkQueenBee :Elaine said:
    “My thinking is this: if you are happy with yourself, have self-confidence and self-respect, that decent men of any race will see that and be attracted to that.”
    Because I guarantee that most non-black men are not going seek out a relationship with a woman who is, say, five feet, six inches tall and 200 pounds. I don’t care how much self-confidence she has, how much self-respect she has, how well she dresses, how high her self-esteem is, or how much intellect she has. Men are visual creatures and that vision doesn’t cut it for them.

    YEP. And I find even most of the Black males who are upwardly mobile don’t subscribe to the overweight “big bootied” girls that most BM prefer. Men also want to be in LTR’s with women they can feel good about.

    I believe most men will sleep with any woman that looks half way decent. Even an overweight woman. However, for LTR’s they simply (most)will not do it.

  31. rainebeaux permalink
    June 29, 2010 3:14 am

    Hm. Yep. Excuse me while I seek a second job and finally get that gym membership because I’ll be DAMNED if I attract the likes of Paul Wall and Bubba Sparxx* (much less any other loser, irrespective of race/ethnicity; I already screwed up having a child with one!)!

    Life ain’t fair and neither is favor, soooo if one isn’t slim/at a healthy weight, she is hereby written off as damaged (as mentioned upthread, confidence through the roof means nothing; perception is reality to men, apparently) and will almost attract same–i know this from experience! This (my weight) is the main reason why I just avoid men and dating…

    *forget who’d mentioned these cats upthread, but bottom line: they and their ilk don’t count. They’re card-carrying members of what I call the Federline Federation and must be avoided at all costs.

  32. Ali permalink
    June 29, 2010 3:24 am

    OH HELL TO THE NO – girl, you did not talk about my cousin! LOL. I feel bad now – thewomen in my family are gorgeous, I didn’t mean to hate on them before. That’s what I get for putting my business in the street! I think Buffie is beautiful and sexy by the way – what is she, a size 8 with a thick behind? I bet she wouldn’t have trouble dating men of any color.

    As a size 0 soaking wet, I don’t feel entirely qualified to talk about this topic. It took me a while to figure out why I seemed to get a stronger response from white guys – it seems shallow to me, and it still seems shallow. You take up less space in the world, therefore you are more attractive? Hmmm. Paging Dr. Freud. . . . . . On the other hand, I do know – and have met – extremely plus size black women who have never considered the fact that their weight is in their way – they keep blaming their dating issues on their skin color. And that does drive me crazy – to the point where if I read an article written by a black woman about how ‘black women are so unwanted’ and ‘nobody wants a black woman’ I google their picture!

    I remember reading a story on single black women – telling their stories – and many of the writers, including Faraeyi Chideya, from npr, were obese. Not overweight, not thick – obese. But no one’s allowed to mention that. Also most overweight black women are NOT checking for overweight white men – no – they want a professional guy with a six pack. Did you see the Oprah, Steve Harvey show where the black woman was listing her preferences? Look it up on YouTube. She said he must be a millionaire and specified a height and weight. Meanwhile the woman herself was overweight! Some black women do need to wake up on this issue.

    I think a couple of women have hit on it in striving for fitness and balance – that’s really the key. Love, love, love being active – running, hiking, camping – and I think reg. working out can tone you and give you a sleeker, happier look, even if lots of weight isn’t lost. Let’s just not become like WW or AW PLEASE and go on these crazy diets and starve ourselves to ‘catch’ men. I know some of those women, and they’re very unhappy. I don’t want to see BW go that route – it would be awful. One of the nice things about being black women is that we can have a variety of looks and sizes and still be attractive. Let’s not all rush to conform to the white ‘ideal’.

    Now I’m debating whether to send my cousin to this site. . . . .she would NOT appreciate this message in the least, even if it has a bit of truth. This is a very delicate issue. You’re slaying a sacred cow.

  33. June 29, 2010 4:12 am

    BlkQueenBee :
    To answer the question you pose, that, “if men don’t find a woman visually attractive in the first place, therefore the rest of her will be unappealing?”, the answer is that most men don’t stick around to find out anything more about a woman if they don’t find her visually attractive. They’re men.
    And if by some chance, they do stick around long enough to get to know these other positve attributes of this woman, most men will still not be able to get over the physical part of the equation in terms of overall attraction.

    This will be a little rough, but I’m trying to help.

    Now I go a little thicker than most WM as far as what I am instinctively attracted to, but only a little. Then I make a conscious effort to give even more leeway because, after all, I am 30 lbs overweight. But I think what you all want to know is the behavior of typical healthy-weight WM.

    I am sorry to relate that BlkQueenBee has it exactly right. Men don’t think like women do, usually. Remember, men are privileged in the dating market. White men are even more privileged. When have you ever seen someone forgo privilege, especially in something as personally important as romance?

    Plus, men are definitely visual creatures. Also figuring into the mix: men are competitive with other men, faster decision makers (I didn’t say “better”), and more ruthless.

    So yes, you may have a pile of compensating virtues, but if you are in the bottom third as far as attractiveness, he won’t be curious. For a typical WM, my take on the factors for attractiveness in approximate decreasing importance are:

    Obesity: measured by body fat percentage, not body mass index, because build matters.
    Other signs of good health: healthy skin (color is immaterial), flexibility, stamina, alertness, strength (up to a point), good respiration, coordination, balance. These signs are all noted subconsciously, but believe me, they are noted.
    Surface personality: friendliness, cheerfulness, attitude, humor
    Hips/butt: it’s more about shape than size.
    Boobs: size preference varies widely, but all men like the anti-gravity look.
    Pretty face. It’s more about symmetry, balance, femininity, and lack of blemishes, than particular features.
    Lots of healthy hair. Color and texture don’t matter.

    These can all be absorbed in 5 to 10 seconds, if he gets to see you move around.

    Very shallow I know, but nature made us this way.

    — Wishing you all progress.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 4:30 am

      Thanks Aaby, for your honesty.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 6:36 am

      I don’t think you can speak for men because you are one. That’s like me saying I am a black woman and therefore, I know all black women love XYZ. I do understand the feeling. Shallow people are shallow people. It’s not exclusively for men, nor for women.

      With that said, they are **some** men who chase “the pretty”. However I do hope that guy knows that he has to bring something to the table too (money or looks) to get “the pretty”. Also not all women are blind to looks! Some of us want to have/get our sexy papi chulos or two (or more lol).

  34. curlyninja permalink
    June 29, 2010 4:19 am

    I don’t know why, but this article made me extremely angry. I’m an overweight black women whose been battling my weight since age 9. Everyone’s experience is different, but since my youth I’ve been sneered at by classmates, strangers and even doctors and my weight has NEVER been about attracting ANYONE!

    In fact, I don’t date because I’m overweight. I find it very strange when a man is turned on by extra weight. And it’s a gross generalization to say that all black men find extra weight attractive and all non-black men don’t.

    I don’t think the author of this article has ever had a problem with being overweight or else she would know there’s a lot more to it than GETTING A DATE!

    And so what if some women want bigger butts cuz that’s what their men like. Maybe some women don’t wanna be enslaved by society’s standard of beauty and be dictated to by diet-and-exercise nazis like this author.

    Okay, I’m done! I’ll just waddle my fat ass outta here now. Have a nice day.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 6:26 am

      Yes, there IS a lot more to dating than weight. There are black, healthy size or skinny women, who have hard time dating, whether interracially or not. I’ve seen white and latino men with black women of different sizes. I think in order to date successfully, you have to love yourself first and that’s what I’m sticking to lol. Yes it is a stereotype that all black men love thick/overweight/obese women. Just like it’s not cool to lump all non-black men into a group like they are think alike. That is certainly not true.

    • June 29, 2010 1:43 pm

      I’m not quite following why her stating that losing weight will help attract some men, especially non-black men would get you sooo angry. You yourself even say that you don’t date because of weight….so isn’t that kind of cosigning with overweight=less date prospects? Am I missing something? Everyone needs to stop taking things so personally and step back and assess what the piece actually SAID. Every little thing makes people offended, even if it’s true

  35. randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
    June 29, 2010 4:28 am

    “You can’t make generalities for everyone, but I think most guys want someone healthy and fit. We’re not saying people can love someone overweight, but you’ll definitely have more options. And that what this whole thing is about, is to explore your options without pigeonholing yourself?”

    That’s a quote from my 37 year-old husband, who has seen me thin and thick, loves me both ways, but can’t keep his hands off me when I’m at my healthiest weight. BTW, we met online and saw a pic of me before he saw my personality.

  36. Elaine permalink
    June 29, 2010 6:18 am

    As I’m skimming the comments I am just at a lost for words. I have to tell you, I am 5’3” (a shorty) and at my lowest weight I’ve been 125 and the highest 175. I am currently 157 lbs. I say this because during these times I never went without having men finding me interesting. Some men were decent some were a**holes but it is what it is. I would like to say that I wish in my life I would have just enjoyed life whatever my size was. I turned down a lot of guys (especially those of other races) because I never felt beautiful/sexy/hot in my own eyes, so I assumed they wouldn’t either. I always told myself that they were just asking me out/talking to me to be nice. This is the thinking that affects women (especially black women) dating. We assume what we know about men and think they **all** are the same. We don’t really try to love ourselves first. The same way some of you say my man loved me at my healthiest or skinniest, I can tell you of women’s husbands of different races/ethnicities who have said the opposite, who balk at their wives for losing weight. I’m not saying we should discount men’s feelings all together (well maybe) but none of that should matter. A women should set her own goals in terms of what she wants to weigh, and ***MAINTAIN*** that weight so that it can be EASIER for HER to deal with. I’m sorry for the long posts but this is something for which I feel quite passionate. I wish I can articulate my feelings better, though. In any event, no matter what you women decide to do, I wish you guys well! We all deserved to be loved and to love someone, so I hope that does happen for all of us :D

  37. Browncow permalink
    June 29, 2010 6:30 am

    Wow. This is really a sensitive issue isn’t it? I went to bed and woke up and I thought the world was crashing in on this site. For those of you who are overweight or obese, people are trying to help you. I used to be sensitive about my weight too. Just think, I was a cheerleader and was cut up from the butt up as my eldest sister would say. Then I went to college and went through a waif stage and had to have all my dresses altered because I was so thin. My parents were afraid for me. I was just active and eating mostly salads and hoping my parents would bring me some curry chicken and egusi soup (my comfort foods). Then I transferred schools and was in an unhappy relationship so I gained weight. It did not go unnoticed either.

    I got up to a size 14 which for my body type means rolls. Big belly, back fat, and a double chin. I was eating so much crap to be honest and I was still active and strong, but you can’t out train a bad diet. So I get you on this. I was overweight for several years before I looked at a picture of myself and said, “Hey. You don’t look good and you want to get married. You have a great personality, but that isn’t enough. Get right for you and other things will follow”. I did just that. I didn’t want to do extreme exercise because I was already doing classical Indian dance like twice a week so on my off days when I wasn’t performing, I was walking. The biggest thing for me was that I changed my diet. I ate more fresh fruits and veggies, not so much fried foods. I cut my portions. It all worked, my body remembered, and I was thin again. Not my college weight because that would be too skinny for me at the time, but my high school size of 4/6 which is ideal for ME.

    I see what women are saying here. You have those who are a little overweight getting defensive and then you have the thinner ladies just stating what they know as truth. Like I said upthread, it’s about being in YOUR best shape. The size won’t matter as long as you have a flat-ish belly, no back fat, and are shaped nicely. People aren’t saying to develop an eating disorder in order to get a man. The message is be the best YOU that you can be. If you are a hot hottie at size 12 then make that your goal. If your body looks best at a size 8 then go for it. It’s about health, not the numbers on the scale because muscle weighs more than fat.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 6:55 am

      lmao I am not sensitive at all. It’s just a shame to see women cave because OMG!!! the non-black men wants us skinny/thin/voluptuous, what is we gonna do???!!! Gotta shape up STAT! (the above was written grammatically incorrect for sarcasm purposes lol)

      I just think this kind of thinking is crazy for reasons I stated above. When I was young and stupid, I actually gained weight because I thought that’s what men wanted (a “thick” or voluptous woman). What I’m saying is that standards of beauty have changed throughout history, and we can’t change each time that standard of beauty changes. You can be YOU, though (always be yourself). Love yourself. Know your worth. Get healthy because you don’t want to be unhealthy. That’s all I’m saying. You can get thin or healthy-sized, but if you have a jacked up personality, and/or if you don’t love yourself, and/or you a miser/wallflower who don’t want to go out ever, then, guess what, you still are going to be single. Meanwhile you got size 16+ shaking a tail feather, making the most out of their lives, and with their boos all over them.

      Dating interracially or dating period is beyond ***just*** a “weight issue”. I want everyone to know that. Also, date interracially is not THAT hard lol. It is about as hard as dating black men. Once black women realize this (and stop letting their feelings/assumptions be a roadblock to their happiness), the better off we will be.

      I do agree with this though: “If you are a hot hottie at size 12 then make that your goal. If your body looks best at a size 8 then go for it. It’s about health”

      • lucy permalink
        August 20, 2010 5:57 pm

        yeah so agree such a well balance comment it’s about looking after yourself not about doing what is necessary to attract non black men, as i said we already have the weave epidemic don’t have anything against straight hair but when you a race gets to a situation where more than 90% have an unatural hair texture or sew in someone else hair and cover their own and are scared to show there natural hair you know there is a problem, the beauty stands we have now about weight skin colour e.t.c are bsed on white ideals that becomes even more apparent when you look at other culures and find that what they find appealing we would probably find unattractive so lets stop looking at what white men find attractive in order to make decision on our appearance it’s like going backwards rather than forward.

  38. Ali permalink
    June 29, 2010 6:41 am

    agree with browncow – the best size for YOU, not for some man. Healthy, fit, active – and a little vanity is bot a bad thing. Curlyninja, please don’t go – come back! This is such a difficult issue, and we need all viewpoints, not just ‘skinny girl’ input. When you say you don’t date because of your weight – what does that mean?

    Because I see heavy black women dating – jut the other day I saw an extremley plus size black woman with a slim middle eastern guy. And of course If you walk through the bc, you will see plenty of heavy women with dates. I think hispanic guys also will go for women who are a little heavier. Do you mean white guys specifically?

    • Browncow permalink
      June 29, 2010 6:53 am

      Thanks Ali, and yes, I see the same things all around me. I saw a nice looking BW with a WM just the other day as I was getting my Vietnamese carry out (yum). She wasn’t a feather bone, she was I think about a size 12/14, but put together well. She was taller about 5’10″ and looked good. She was in her best shape. I see all sorts of women out there of various sizes with men of all body types as well. There are guys out there who are and will be attracted to you. For me it isn’t about that. It’s about being your healthiest and happiest self.

      I just don’t want for some people to be turned off of this blog because of this very sensitive discussion. This place is great for discussions and I knew this one was going to be hot. I think this has the most posts on it than any other. You can take what you want and trash the rest if you don’t like it, but this is a great place to hold honest discussions about dating, marriage, children, and how it all effects us as BW.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 8:21 am

        Browncow, I don’t want any hurt feelings either. I think that some folks who come on here don’t realize at first that I have a very irreverent sense of humor. All articles on this blog is rooted in my commitment to uplift, encourage, and educated women who are seeking to exercise their options. And…sometimes it’s not all going to be happy talk. So, thanks for sticking up for the site!

    • curlyninja permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:18 am

      I guess I’m just so disgusted by this article, because I share some of the same views, which is why I don’t date. (And that makes me an idiot.) The only difference between this blogger’s narrow-minded views and my own is that she seems to think black men don’t share the same views as non-black men when it comes to a preference for thin women.

      I’ve seen online classifieds and black and non-black men alike put out the same disclaimer: “Fatties need not apply.” So, yeah…I don’t date.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 8:32 am

        Curlninja, I’m sorry if I contributed to the hurt and rejection you feel. That is not my intention. I really strive to be uplifting, but you must be aware–and a lot of regulars on here will tell you–that I have an irreverent sense of humor. Nothing, not even church is above poking fun of here! I often use humor and exaggerations to make serious points without sounding preachy. I do hope you stick around…I’m not as shallow as I may appear to you at this moment. :)

  39. June 29, 2010 6:51 am

    unfortunately, it is true.. Men are visual people… all men are in most every country. The first thing that attracts them is your outside package.. it is sad but true.. and we have to face that. Especially if you are dating Asian men. They are little people .. compared to most.. so it is normal that they would be interested in a smaller woman. Mind you I am not a small woman.. (especially when my husband is only 100 pounds and 5’5) but i was told by a very, very good friend of mine that is Japanese.. that the reason I trouble getting good Asian men .. is because of my weight.. now.. i was pissed as hell when he told me that.. and I yelled at him.. and told him he was cruel and to kiss my ass… he apologized to me.. but told me that he only told me the truth because he wants me to find a good man to be happy with. I didnt speak to him for a month.. because of this.. and during that time.. I realized he was right… I was not at my best.. and I was fat.. by Asian standards.. and American standards.. and I needed to do something… so I called him back .. said I was sorry and asked him to help me. And he did.. gladly… I am still not my best weight but I have lost a lot… and have found a wonderful Asian husband… who tells me he loves me to death.. and wants me to continue to lose weight.. not because he doesnt find me beautiful but because… he wants me healthy… and I do my best .. to be healthy now… not only for him .. but for me… Men are different all over the world.. but one thing holds true is .. that you will have an easier time… if you are visually pleasing… by the way I am a size 14 and holding… but i will get to the size 10.. i just keep working…

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 8:24 am

      That’s great to hear. Sometimes the truth hurts at first, and takes a little time to sink in.

      • lucy permalink
        August 20, 2010 6:06 pm

        I have to say i do like you style of writing and humour it does allow open and free discussion not to name names but on other interracial blogs you say one thing that the person disagres with like i like black men as well as other races and you get branded a bm supporter and all those other terms they use just because you don’t want to jump on the gender war bandwagon. Anyway thanks for being open and not preaching i think that style of preaching can be a little patronising and doesn’t leave things open for discussion. So that one is able to consider and appreciate other insights and points of views

      • Christelyn permalink*
        August 20, 2010 6:14 pm

        Thanks for stopping by, but we’ve moved! It’s a ghost town ova hea! Cut and paste your comment and see what else we talkin’ bout! http://www.beyondblackwhite.com

    • September 1, 2010 1:49 am

      That is part of the problem. You can be a size 10 and have Asians still think it’s fat.

      What if you *feel* best at a size 10 but men — and some of your women friends — think you *look* best at size 6, which because of your body type requires eating-disorder style starvation?

      Some of you all aren’t thinking this all the way through.

  40. Elaine permalink
    June 29, 2010 6:57 am

    I just wanted to re-post this because this is a summary of my feelings as a whole:

    Dating interracially or dating period is beyond ***just*** a “weight issue”. I want everyone to know that. Also, date interracially is not THAT hard lol. It is about as hard as dating black men. Once black women realize this (and stop letting their feelings/assumptions be a roadblock to their happiness), the better off we will be.

    • June 29, 2010 7:38 am

      I’m pretty sure no one here is implying that “dating interracially or dating period is beyond ***just*** a ‘weight issue’”. But there is still the important message that it matters. Lets not let our feelings about how it should be prevent us from seeing how it is. There are guys who like heavy women, but not enough of them for all the heavy women that are looking. Your chances improve greatly as you get closer to a healthy weight. You do NOT have to be skinny.

  41. rainebeaux permalink
    June 29, 2010 7:42 am

    Re: my previous comment

    ~hereby–>thus
    ~almost…almost always

    Otherwise it still stands. I wish I could be defensive, but I’m just mad I’ve ruined my figure in vain; shoot, I need all the help I can get. No telling how long this is gonna take….

    ____

    Yes, this is a sensitive topic, but oh well…the fewer flaws/demerits I (we) have, the better. Attracting better quality men is just the bonus*, but the main issue is BW are dropping like flies over unnecessary BS (lafemmenoir touched on this earlier)! So, fellow Team Chunk members: get over it and get it–overall health, not just weight–together!

    *I don’t know about the other overweight/obese women in here, but I have yet to see women my (our) size with any decent men within or outside the hood…just the usual suspects, I’m afraid.

    Anyway, best of luck to us all. (See also: …..”*cough, wheeze* give Elsie an’em my regards…*cough*…see you at the crossroads, yo *cough*…I see handbags that look like Zeke…” <–the aforementioned sacred cow)

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:09 am

      @ Rainebeaux: “*I don’t know about the other overweight/obese women in here, but I have yet to see women my (our) size with any decent men within or outside the hood…just the usual suspects, I’m afraid.”

      See this line of thinking, which I sense throughout these comments, makes me feel some kind of way (and I’m neither skinny nor big). On the LHCF (long haircare forum), where I participate in discussions, such comments were made that bigger (and certain body types) = hood/ghetto. I wish I can change people’s minds about this, but unfortunately people are going to see what they want to see. I can’t make my reality theirs so I guess I should just leave it at that. Because no matter how many size 10+++ are walking around with men (who are decent skinny/ripped muscles or fat men), some people will see what they want to see.

      I’m wondering how these entrys would go if we did young vs old women and “men’s attraction” to either groups of women . . .

      In my opinion, I think we are just stratching the surface with this article(s) when talking about black women and dating interracially. There are so many issues that I feel it all leads back to self-confidence and having postive thoughts. Women of all ages, sizes, SES are complaining that IF they are a certain way, that THEN they can find a suitable partner. That’s a major problem. So much negatively . . . it reminds me of what Dr. Wayne Dyer said about the old lady who thought no one would want her because “all men want younger women”. She realize how faulty that logic is because they are indeed older women who attract decent men. Therefore her negative thoughts was what stopped her from dating successfully. I think this happens to many women (black women too).

      • Elaine permalink
        June 29, 2010 8:11 am

        *scratching the surface

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 8:14 am

      I wonder, Rainebeaux, if it would be helpful to do a Part II on this topic, and have various members chime in on their fitness regimens so that we can all share and gain knowledge of healthy habits? Maybe we can even do a fitness challenge, with before/after photos, health and diet plans, etc., and we can all check in maybe once a month.

      • Browncow permalink
        June 29, 2010 9:50 am

        That sounds like a great idea. Being that I’m currently gestating, I’ll have to pass on the fitness challenge. I’m doing more of the birth warrior fitness program to get ready for my second home birth. I’m sure that this will help the ladies who want to get in better shape, but don’t know how to go about it get started and have a support system of ready made cheerleaders (V-I-C-T-O-R-Y!!!) to encourage each other. Yeah, I like it!!! :)

  42. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:11 am

    I see a lot of comments here as to why weight/height ratio shouldn’t be important to men (specifically non-black men), and comments with examples as to why it must not be important, and then, comments that admit that it’s important, but minimizing the importance of same.

    And then, of course, there’s the feel-good and self esteem chatter interspersed with all of that.

    All of this talk by us is not going to change anything on the men’s side of the equation. Most men are still going to make a decision regarding who they invest time in for a relationship based on their physical preferences. They did that yesterday, they’re going to do it today, and they’re still going to do that tomorrow. And most non-black men don’t have a preference for fat women.

    No matter what we say or how we couch it or how we rationalize that they do, or that they should, most non-black men don’t find overweight women attractive.

    If you want to play in this league, then you have to play by their rules. Unfortunately, we don’t get to make our own rules.

    I know it’s hard. If I ate everything I wanted, I’d be 250 lbs. I was an athlete in high school and college, and I am built solid, with thick wrists, big bones, etc. I’m 5’5″ and 143 pounds, which is hardly stick-thin. I’ve been as low as 120 lbs., and I’ve been as high as 186 lbs. (mother, father, and best friend died within a three-year period, so I was eating and drinking my grief).

    At my current weight, I do OK in the dating arena, but, I am stong as a little ox and super-firm because I bike, I do the stairmaster, etc. and you can bounce a quarter off of my big butt. I like the way I look and feel at this weight. This is where I want to stay, weight-wise.

    For some non-black men, I’m still a little too big, but there’s enough of a population that thinks I’m just right so that I can get all the dates I want with non-black men that I actually desire (not men I’m settling for because I’m fat).

    No one is suggesting that you need to be model-thin in order to date non-black men. Model-thin is 5’11 and 128 lbs. That is just CRAZY.

    But it is also completely delusional to think that feeling good about yourself is going to move the needle in terms of attracting men (non-black men, anyway) if you are 5’11″ and 260 lbs.

    Look, you can be an appropriate weight/height ratio and still fail miserably at IR dating; it’s not the end-all, be-all solution to being successful at it. But it is a very important box that needs to be checked, men being what they are. If no one pays attention to you because of your size, then how will you ever get enough time with a guy to entrance him with all of the wonderful-ness of you and bewitch him with your feminine charms?

    And isn’t that the end game here, to at some point find a mate to (hopefully) spend a lifetime of happiness with, until you’re both fat and old, but content in each other’s enduring love?

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:17 am

      Again men DO NOT all think alike . . . no one would like if a man (especially of different race) say well ALL black women think XYZ.

      I am glad for convos like these, however. I just hate seeing women think if I’m this way then I need to be that way to have a better life, because 9 times out of 10, it may not yield the results you want. This goes for healthy or skinny vs fat, old vs young, poor vs rich, college educated vs high school educated etc.

      I just want people to see the bigger picture. To me it’s simple, if you’re happy, just do you. If you’re not happy, then CHANGE IT!

  43. Elaine permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:21 am

    With all this talk, it would be great to have a separate conversations about health and fitness (specifics, what to do), because I love talking about this.

    I think there are a lot of misconceptions about health and fitness/eating better that need to be address. We as black women do need to address those issues for our own benefit.

  44. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:22 am

    @Elaine -

    You keep making this point, over and over again, that men do not all think alike. I think everyone is aware of this already.

    There are always exceptions to every rule. Just because there are, that doesn’t change the fact that the rule still exists. You will notice that everyone else is talking about the preferences of “most” non-black men. Not all, but most.

    Non-black men, like black women, are not a monlithic population. We all know that. There is no reason to keep repeating it.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:33 am

      It bears repeating because people keep saying something along the lines of “well you know men don’t like women who are above a size 12″. That’s treating them as a monolithic group, no?

      Unless there is a survey that can tell us ***with great accuracy*** what the men population like, then we can’t say what they like. Also one must aadmit that there are women who willing to date, but they may have different standards for marriage/long lasting relationships.

      So when people make blanket statements like “men don’t like women above size XYZ” or “men only want younger women” (not stated on here, but it’s been made in other places) then yeah I get defensive and so will others.

  45. Buckeye permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:25 am

    From randomthoughtsfromcali

    “…ladies, we MUST face the truth, stop making excuses, and get ourselves fit, happy, sexy and healthy. And if a rainbow man thinks you’re hot after all that effort, then all the better.”

    End of story. Do it for yourself first, and the rest will follow. Like someone upthread said, it’s not the end-all be-all, but it’s a good start.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 8:37 am

      I’m glad you caught that, Buckeye; it was the key point of the post.

  46. Niki permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:26 am

    Always a hot topic! LOL I am speaking as a woman who right now is a size 16/18, but stand at 5’9 and have a larger bone structure, so most people can’t guess exactly what I weigh. I am honest with myself that I weigh WAY more than I would like to, have semi-bad eating habits, and have gotten excited about working out, only to quit in frustration after a few weeks when the pounds aren’t dropping fast enough. I used to wear a size 9/10 in high school and was very skinny. I liked my body the best when I wore size 11/12 because I was still very thin for my body structure, but I had a bit more curve. I would like to get back down to that weight. I haven’t had a problem attracting guys with my extra weight in the past, but now that I am 35, still single, and dating prospects are starting to dwindle, I realize that I have do make a lifestyle change that includes putting the best version of me out there to appeal to a wider variety of potential partners. I think a lot of us have blinders on when it comes to this subject–I can’t tell you how many times I have seen 14 year old girls with love handles, pot bellies, ill-fitting “junior” clothing, looking old enough to be my mama–it didn’t used to be like that, but now they are the majority. Even the black men that say they like their women “thick”, it still refers to a very specific body type –an hourglass figure that includes a small waist, a little junk in the trunk, and little or no other visible body fat. I would love to close my eyes and sing “Kumbaya” and think that the world is a fair place where people like you just for who you are, but I know it’s not like that. I still enjoy my life and dress attractively even at my current weight, but I do know I could be doing a lot better for myself!

  47. curlyninja permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:39 am

    randomthoughtsfromcali :Browncow, I don’t want any hurt feelings either. I think that some folks who come on here don’t realize at first that I have a very irreverent sense of humor. All articles on this blog is rooted in my commitment to uplift, encourage, and educated women who are seeking to exercise their options. And…sometimes it’s not all going to be happy talk. So, thanks for sticking up for the site!

    This is supposed to be funny?? And uplifting?? and educational?? And encouraging??

    Ohhhh right, this is the serious talk LOL. You probably already know this but I don’t need to be educated by the likes of you LOL. I love exercise and eating healthy and I’m 30lbs down. I’ve spent a lifetime researching fitness and nutrition and if you really knew what you were talking about, you’d understand the psychology behind being overweight as well. Sooooo…

    Lord, I hate that I’m not one of those overweight females that just gives narrow-minded skinny heffas the finger and goes ahead and gets their date on. I mean, I’m giving you the finger all day long, but in the end I still let people like you convince me that I’m unworthy of love and companionship because of the way I look and it’s a darn shame.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 8:45 am

      Curlyninja, I’m open to giving you the floor, but I draw the line at name-calling and demeaning–especially if its toward me! Just remember who’s house you’re in–we can have a healthy debate, but if you think I’m going to keep allowing your comments so that you can clown me and be bitter about the message, just remember, I got my hand on the latch to the trap door. :)

      • curlyninja permalink
        June 29, 2010 9:31 am

        I do apologize, that was too far. I wasn’t talking about anyone here specifically. It’s just that the views in your article remind me of some of the women I’ve met in the past who share your same views and they were way less polite in expressing them. I’m afraid I was having flashbacks. But this article will continue to disturb me just as they still do. I guess I’m just not “over it.” Peace.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 9:37 am

        That’s very gracious of you; I accept your apology wholeheartedly. And despite my chronic foot-in-mouth disease, I’m a really nice person! Also know that there are plenty of members on BB&W who are willing to support and encourage you. We are all sisters here, with the same goal–to live our best life with our best love!

    • BlkQueenBee permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:52 am

      Sheesh, curlyninja, why all the hatin’ on random? She didn’t make the rules, either.

      This is like the old “kill the messenger” premise.

      No one here said you are unworthy of love and companionship. They have merely pointed out how men think, that’s all, and how men think is a lot different than how women think.

      I’ve been overweight; I have a feeling that a lot of these women have been as well at some point. Or, they’re fighting that battle right now.

      I think most of the women here have considerable empathy for you.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 8:55 am

        THIS!

  48. Nemo permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:41 am

    Tearyne :
    Something less vapid and more open-ended. The no answers are especially too targeted, because although a user might think no, she doesn’t necessarily have to be skinny to select that option. The first option for no is also flawed, in that one doesn’t have to think, per se, that their options are precluded to “no, but…”. Your options are essentially “yes, because I’m fat”, “no, but me being fat keeps me from getting dates”, or “no, because I’m skinny”.
    The yes answer should also either be fragmented, or simply yes, no, and possibly other with the option to allow your users to explain more in the comments below.

    This. There should be more options because I don’t fit into any of the options given, so I didn’t vote. there should be a ‘my current body size isnt a problem with who I attract or something like that ect. I really think you need to change the poll a bit :/

    bl

    Neecy :

    Hey it is what it is. Most men don’t want a FAT woman. I also believe most men don’t want a bone skinny woman either. They like them in between without mid section fat and excessive fat in other areas. b/c I feel that if I am going to put myself out there to COMPETE for a mate with other women who are doing their best to look good and attract the same kinds of men I am trying to attract, I need to bring it. I cannot go into the dating arena half stepping and thinking I am going to get the man I want when other women and other races are also competing for these men. Its just reality. The dating game for women today is very competitive. Being overweight knocks you out of the arena.
    Now I don’t believe that all BW have to work to achieve some crazy small size. We all should not be working to be a size 2, 4 or 6. Great if your body type calls for you being a size 2,4 or 6. but some of us look our best at a size 7,8,9 or 10 or 12. Some people say size 12 is a chicken dinner or two away from being fat. Size 14 is typically when you start entering overweight arena. Now I am not saying you can’t look good at a size 14, but for most people you are now somewhat overweight b/c you have to go to plus size sections to find clothes. YES I have been there myself. So I am not some bone skinny sistas trying to hate on the plus size. I am still borderline plus size myself working my way down to my normal size (7/8-9/10).
    Your body type will ultimately determine the BEST healthiest size for you. We all look different at different weight and sizes. but we also know what is healthy and fit for us and what isn’t. Once you start shopping in the plus size section, you have entered into the danger zone. And let’s face it I have had to shop in the plus size stores when I gained my weight a few years ago, and frankly the clothes are waaaaaay too expensive! That in and of itself should be a motivation to slim down so you can shop at the regular stores that are not specialized for a certain size.
    I don’t think there is a universal guide that you can place on individuals when it comes to looking good and healthy but I can say this: We all know what looks too big and unhealthy. if you have a big stomach or large mid section that sticks out or is super flabby – not only is that NOT attractive, but its simply NOT healthy. I am working on my mid section area as well as other areas. I gained a lot of weight a few years ago b/c I was going through a very emotional and stressful situation, but now its time to stop making excuses and get busy. People who have excess weight in the mid section are at higher risks for heart disease b/c of the inflammation that occurs in the mid section. I sold statins (cardiovascular drugs) and there is scientific data that proves this – inflammation is one of the biggest causes of heart disease and future heart attacks. It is what it is.
    So in essence, I think BW need to realize that being overweight is simply not healthy and people ALWAYS look their best when they are at their proper weight.
    So sisters, let’s just recognize that there is major competition in the dating market for all men, and one has to bring her A GAME when putting ourselves out there. And the first part of it, is making sure we are at a healthy and attractive weight

    This as well.

    Aabaakawad :
    I’m pretty sure no one here is implying that “dating interracially or dating period is beyond ***just*** a ‘weight issue’”. But there is still the important message that it matters. Lets not let our feelings about how it should be prevent us from seeing how it is. There are guys who like heavy women, but not enough of them for all the heavy women that are looking. Your chances improve greatly as you get closer to a healthy weight. You do NOT have to be skinny.

    Finally this.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:59 am

      And see I would say that if a woman wants to be skinny or really thin ala Calista Flockhart (and are healthy) then she should do that for herself. Forget what “men” want! LOL!

      I need to stop!

  49. Elaine permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:50 am

    WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!

    I finally read ALL the comments, and I think on some things we are going to agree to disagree. Some people’s experiences may vary. Some people’s definitions of being healthy and being a certain size varies as well.

    I do get the overall message of this article/comments, though. I’m not denying that. It’s just when you state things a certain way, sometimes it does offend people.

    What we can all agree on, is that there all benefits for being/staying healthy.

  50. Elaine permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:56 am

    randomthoughtsfromcali :And Elaine, perhaps you might like to contribute to that post. Because of this huge response, I think we need to take a more activist role in helping other BB&W members overcome weight and health issues, not solely to snag a mate, but to fend off disease, stay looking younger longer, positive self image, energy, and…hotness.

    I can definitely do that! I’m definitely an advocate for healthy practices, especially for BW. I guess the feminist in me felt some kind of way about how things were stated here. I’m sorry for the pages long rants lol

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 9:02 am

      Are we FB friends? Maybe we can chat offline about a Part II to this debate, one that fit members can exchange their healthy eating/fitness habits.

      • Elaine permalink
        June 29, 2010 9:06 am

        Yes, we are. I’ll shoot you a message to let you know who am on there.

  51. Hodan permalink
    June 29, 2010 9:38 am

    I think we should also differentiate between what we ‘hetro’ ladies find attractive in other women and what hetro men do. For instance, many women find Jennifer Aniston body very appealing, yet equally many men do not. I know from personal experience, whether I was over or under 15 pounds, never had difficulty attracting men of all race/ethnicity. Many Black women like Hispanic, Southern Europeans and Middle Eastern women are more curvy and have bigger chest and backs, we can’t help it. It all comes down to living a healthy life style that is appropriate for your actual height and weight. I’m 5’9 and size 10 in North American standard, but size 12 whenever I travel to Europe. Yet many people are shocked to find out my size because for some reason I look skinnier than I actually weight.

    Men like a woman who looks healthy and takes care of herself, they are not looking for emancipated bodies who look more like 12 yrs boys than actually grown adult. Black women have so much going on for them in term of their natural body type, but they also need to fight the ever growing obesity that’s killing them.

  52. David Wise permalink
    June 29, 2010 9:39 am

    I think that picture is way too much and was used to simply embarrass black women. Shame will not work. They’re forever proud of being overweight or carrying poundage on their legs and butts. Conversely, I know skinny black women with white husbands who are equally proud. Personally my taste has always been for a petite frame, which isn’t a size that most black women typically have. Still, I have a variety of body types that are acceptable to me, so I’m not extremely picky. Everybody has their preference though.

  53. BlkQueenBee permalink
    June 29, 2010 9:45 am

    God, I love black women!

    We can bring the drama, that’s for sure. LOL.

    Just as a side note, I don’t know about the rest of you in an IR relationship, but my man says when I get mad about something, I am like a force of nature. But, unlike most BM, he doesn’t start yelling too, which is good – he is the calm in the middle of my storm. SO, that works out from a yin and yang perspective.

    Wishing all of you ladies much luck with the whole weight struggle. I am in the same boat, paddling just as hard. It sure ain’t easy resisting temptation, day after day.

  54. June 29, 2010 9:47 am

    Men are visual creatures. Most men do not get turned on by hanging bellies, back fat, jiggly thighs and upper arms that swing in the breeze. Women are not turned on by double chins, guts that push through the door frame 5 minutes ahead of the man’s body, nor fat thighs that rub together. I refuse to date a man with a bigger ass than mine as well, whose hair is longer than mine or who wears more jewelry than I do (but that’s another story).

    Women need to get real. If you want to get the attention of a specific type of man, you need to be sexually stimulating to him. Men think with their dicks. That’s it and that’s all. So if he cannot imagine getting busy with you, he won’t pick you for a date, a girlfriend or a wife. That may also apply if you are too thin for his tastes. Some men are turned off by bony women that they think of as having “childlike” bodies. Some men are turned off by overly muscular women that makes them feel like they are in bed with another dude.

    Men like women that are trim, shapely, with curves in the right places that spell WOMAN to him. Too fat or too thin you are outside of most guy’s “hot bod” vision. You might like to imagine that it “should” be better, but its not going to be. You want a man, get to the gym and do some table push-backs. Stop going to eat all you want buffets. Stop eating junk. Put those carbs down and eat more low fat protein. Eat fruits and vegetables.

    If you want help managing your diet and exercise tips (all free by the way), log onto http://www.sparkpeople.com. It’s an excellent site.

  55. Ali permalink
    June 29, 2010 10:13 am

    Lawd Hav Mercy – it’s hot up in here! I admire you for bringing up this controversial issue Random – (and don’t feel bad about the way it was worded, I suspect I have the same sort of sense of humor that you do) Obviously this is something that a lot of us have views on. I think we should def. do a second post – a part 2 – if we can, where we talk about fitness and weight tips. Or would that be weird? I don’t think I’ve EVER read weight tips specifically tailored for black women, by black women – it would be interesting . . . . .

    I am also noticing that many people have very diff. ideas of what is thin and what is big. Some people seem to think that anything under a size 14 is very small, which is very surprising to me. To me, small is 0,2, small-ish is 4,6. Of course, with the way they keep changing the sizes these days (a ’2′ nowadays is a 1950′s ’8′) it’s hard to tell anymore.

  56. CocoButter permalink
    June 29, 2010 10:47 am

    I’m 179 lbs @ 5’7. Currently, I’m working on getting back down to my fighting weight of 145-150. Any smaller and people would think I was on crack.

    Even though I want to hate on this article, I would say that it’s true in an artificial setting such as online dating. I never have a problem turning heads in public whether they be black, white, latino, asian, male, female (strangely only white women:(, male, old or young.

    But once I jumped online, I immediately found Rainbow men (mainly white men) tend to like the Hollywood ideal which is not only the smaller girl BUT the younger girl too! And this irritates me. More so because of the age issue than size, since Black doesn’t crack but Rainbow men start to practically crumble at the age of 30. So while I’m still looking like Lena Horne at 80, he’ll look like the Creep Keeper but at least he’s thin. WTF!

    From what I’ve observed, Rainbow men tend to want an ideal because they have self-esteem issues themselves. And like the guy said earlier, “white men are competitive” and they want to put the best forward and the best to them is a size 6 Barbie even though they look like Creature Feature. I think that’s why so many of them wait later in life to date interracially as well.

    Yes, I think black women should get in shape, heck all Americans need to young and old, men and women. I visited five different countries in Europe in March and even though this 179lb lard ass got a few whistle calls, I felt like a Momma Cass compared to the norm there, well except for Madrid (the women are thick there too:) But we should get in shape because we want to be as healthy and young inside and the outside as well and not because we want to get Rainbow men to notice us.

    P.S. Buffy’s body is real. My best friend Stephanie was shaped like her and her rumpshaka could pull guys for days even when we both were the same size around 150lbs.

  57. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 10:51 am

    Elaine :I hear what you saying, but I just do not like that the advice is, if you’re *fat* that you need to lose weight or change ourselves in other ways *just* because most men don’t want a overweight/obese women.

    i hear ya. i have never been one to buy into the change for a man slogan, but I am also realistic about what the opposite sex GENERALLY prefers.

    I agree that women should never pigeonhold men into categories b/c men love all kinds of variety. I will even go so far to say that I don’t believe most men even want women who look like those supermodels, b/c many of thier body types are not feminine looking to them. BUT it is safe to say there are certain trends that don’t budge. And men will always feel best with women who look healthy and sexually attractive. An Overweight woman is NOT typically what most men prefer. Who was the last sex symbol or pin up girl you saw univerally that was overweight?

    BW need to stop being so sensitive about the weight issue, b/c far too many of us today are NOT healthy. Bump what stats say, Almost 80 percent of the BW I see with my own eyes daily are really overweight or slightly overweight.

    BW were not always like this. in the 80′s you saw more fit and healthy looking BW. Not skinny but lean with the right amount of feminine curves to still be feminine and soft looking without being overweight or too boney. Nowadays BW have become so comfortable with being overweight that when we start talking about how we as a collective need to work on this not just to better our health but to ALSO be much more successful in getting the men we want, it becomes a touchy issue.

    BW do not need to view weight from the eyes of crazed WW who think looking rail thin is what is most attractive. BUT BW do need to realize that we need to as a collective be healthier and more fit.

    and Elaine, you are only 24 so let me repeat this. you keep comparing what YOU as a woman would be willing to do with a man who may not physically be up to your liking. MEN ARE DIFFERENT. Learn this now before its too late honey. Seriously, you don’t want to be in your 30′s and having this reality smack you in the face. That is all I am sayoing. MEN are different and they are PHYSICAL and VISUAL creatures before anything. Its nature and its not going to change. just like its natural for women to want men who are going to be great proctectors and providers of them and thier children. That is just NATURAL. Some things are the way they are. There are always exceptions, but for the most part – general is general.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 2:53 pm

      I’m not really sensitive to the weight, I want to make that clear. I’m a size 8 and man if I had a flat stomach I would stay this way. It is just hard to hear that people think size 12++ is “unattractive”. I have family members and seen women in public that are quite attractive at those sizes. I know now that I won’t be this supposed object of desire based on some unattainable standard of beauty (not too thin, voluptous, not too big), so I make up my own rules. I’ve been much happier for it. It’s also frustrating that men don’t get scruntized by women as we do with our fellow sistas. But at last I am an idealist so I should save this for my dreams for the future.

      I just want to let the size 12++ or the super skinnies (because apparently men don’t like them either lol) know they I feel them and whatever they chose to be happy (whether lose/gain weight, stay the same), they have their supporter. I’m always fighting some cause, I’ll tell ya lol.

      Meanwhile, I will just continuing doing me, laughing, smiling, dancing, traveling abroad, meeting new people . . . I know I will find my better half, and based on my latest dating experiences, I’m soo close that I can feel it! I hope that for every woman though!

  58. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 10:58 am

    lafemmenoir :
    Onwards.We, as women, especially as black women, need to take better care of ourselves, plain and simple. A healthy diet is our friends. P>

    Lafemm, this so far is the best post I read. BW we just need to take better care of ourselves. PERIOD. And you are right, being overweight and unhealthy looking is not just related to physical health but mental heatlth. Many BW today are simply MISERABLE. And the weight we carry is reflective of that. Guess what. I was always at a normal healthy weight until a few years ago when – yes – I had a very emotional and stressful situation. And i gained a lot of weight.

    i don’t care who chooses to argue with me. if you look at the average BW daily just while you are out and about – she is usually overweight in some way shape or form. That is very telling.

    • Neecy permalink
      June 29, 2010 11:18 am

      Elaine :
      What we can all agree on, is that there all benefits for being/staying healthy.

      THIS in and of itself should be the key message that we all leave here with. Being fit and healthy only benefits the individual in MORE ways than one. if that is how you have to look at it and take the “male” out of the equation, then by all means do that!

      • Janice Rhoshalle permalink
        June 29, 2010 11:48 am

        Indeed…being healthy is WAY more important than being skinny. We all know that most American women will never be a size 2 or 3, but there’s nothing wrong with a size 12 either. It’s all about staying fit at any size. Because if you’re feeling good, you’ll feel confident about yourself — and that looks good on the inside and out…and that’s what’s most attractive to any man.

  59. blackgirlinmaine permalink
    June 29, 2010 11:06 am

    Interesting post. Not sure I agree with all that has been stated especially when the average American woman (regardless of race) is close to being a size 14. I have been with my husband who is white 15 years plus my first husband was white. So for 20 yrs roughly I have been dealing with white men and not really sure they see weight in quite the same light we do.

    In some of these comments its almost seems some are striving for the Eurocentric standards of beauty. Yes there are many Black women who may eat unhealthy but frankly most Americans do! I think its more important to focus on being healthy in whatever form that takes rather than fixating on some body image that may not be appropriate to you.

    As far as size numbers, frankly they aren’t to be trusted. Personally I know that depending on the designer I range from being a 4-8 which is a pretty wide stretch. Again focus on health and wellness, frankly a woman who is phsyically, mentally and emotionally healthy ought not to have a problem finding a mate, or at the very least a date. Too many of us however are not healthy, oh we may be fine on the outside but are we fine inside?

  60. Michelle permalink
    June 29, 2010 12:43 pm

    I am an AA woman with an AA husband for 21 years. I am a size 6/8 and stand about 5 feet 3 inches and hourglass shape. I receive compliments from my husband and men of other ethnicities as well. Being a size 6/8 and 5 ft 3 in, I do not view myself as skinny and I don’t believe anyone else does either. I am not trying throw shade on the “rainbow men like their women skinny” thought process, but I really do think that is an over-generalization. It is my experience that men like what they like on an individual basis. I know that some black men like women with a big butt, but to say that all black men are like that, is ridiculous. It is just as ridiculous to say that all men of other ethnicities like skinny women. I have seen any number of “rainbow men” with women who were by no stretch of the imagination skinny. It’s all about individual preference.

  61. Lisa in NYC permalink
    June 29, 2010 12:46 pm

    OMG, some of the comments I’m reading on here are just hilarious in their
    innocence.

    I’m 33 years old, I grew up with five brothers and a father, and my white
    fiancé has a dozen friends that I talk with all the time (we’re pals,
    basically), and I have to say that it’s obvious that some of these women
    have not yet had a lot of exposure to men.

    First of all, Deborrah Cooper, Neecy, BlkQueenBee, etc. have got it down.
    Men are different from women, always have been, always will be, and they
    will do the things they do because they think differently than woman, and
    it’s in their DNA to do so.

    A black feminist saying that men should just change the way they are and be
    attracted to a woman for her internal beauty will have absolutely zero
    effect on what they think and do, now and in the future.

    It’s like saying you want to catch fish, and you know the fish like worms,
    but you don’t like worms, it goes against what you believe in terms of
    catching fish. So you decide to use chunks of potatoes on a hook instead.
    You say, “I’m not going to change for any fish”.

    You don’t catch any fish, and then you ask yourself and your friends,
    “What’s wrong with these damn fish? There must be something wrong with these
    fish. I guess I just need to find some fish that like potatoes, because I am
    NOT compromising on what I use for bait. I’m sure there must be some “good”
    fish that like potatoes. We’ll just have to keep looking for those kinds of
    fish.”

    Yup.

    If you don’t think you need to be the shape that men desire in order to
    attract a man, then as I see it, you have a few options:

    Hold out for a man that doesn’t care about your body weight. I’m sure you’ll
    be equally attracted to him when you meet him.

    Become a lesbian.

    Live alone. Go get some cats tomorrow (some “starter cats”) and we’ll check
    in on you and your fifteen cats in about 50 years.

    Yeah, I’m kind of having fun with this, but really, as someone else pointed out,
    you don’t get to make up your own rules in this thing. Men (and fish) are
    what they are, and they’re not going to change.

    No one’s saying you have to change your very being or soul, or act dumb, or
    virginal, or like a slut, it’s just being pointed out that most men seek out
    attractive women. Furthermore, it’s being pointed out that most men don’t
    think fat women are attractive women.

    If you can’t hang with that, then there are always those other options.

    • Violet permalink
      July 6, 2010 4:32 pm

      Ha, this is very funny! And I agree 100%.

      If you don’t like this game, then find another game.

      I know every woman reading this knows that men don’t get to make our rules, either. If they did, every broke 38 year-old bald guy with a beer gut would be sleeping with a beautiful 25 year-old nymphomaniac whose father owned a chain of liquor stores.

      • BlkQueenBee permalink
        July 6, 2010 9:34 pm

        Funny followed by even more humor! Very good!

  62. kaikou permalink
    June 29, 2010 1:20 pm

    Wow! Let’s be honest the truth hurts. I have read every comment and the majority of it is just people talking about their relative experience. I would never discount anyone’s experience, but in group dynamics/forums it is sometimes healthier to stick to facts.
    There have been many studies over the years pointing to the ideal hip to waist ratio being a 0.7 aka hourglass figure. Again there is always exceptions,but that could be a good marker for some.

    In my experience, overweight tends to definitely be size 10 or more. The average height for a woman is 5’5″ tall. Look at the numbers people.

    Unfortunately it will take a lot more dialogue to convince many that they are too big. Not because men don’t want them, but because their health is at risk. I mean we all have watched Tyra and Ophra shows with people who are in denial. Tyra and Ophra each have suffered their own weight issues.

    A continuous dialogue needs to be going on. People get defensive because they realize that their suitability as a mate is at question.

    At the end of the day we are animals, mammals, only the most fit in every sense of the word will survive. Why not up your chances of finding the BEST quality mate?

    • Neecy permalink
      June 29, 2010 6:31 pm

      kaikou :In my experience, overweight tends to definitely be size 10 or more. The average height for a woman is 5’5″ tall. Look at the numbers people.

      Uuuuh size 10 is hardly big. I’m hourglass and a s/m at size 10 and have no flab, flat tummy and very toned. maybe for some women who don’t carry weight porpotionally. but rarely is any female a size 10 big or fat. In high school and college and at a size 10 i wore s/m. I am now shooting for the 7/8 – 9/10 range to be at a very attractive healthy looking weight.

      Up to size 12 is considered NORMAL healthy weight for most women. This is what you will find in most stores. Anything over size 12 IMO is overweight b/c you then have to start shopping in the plus size stores and sections.

      once we start telling women size 10 is too big, we obviously have a major problem.

  63. beautifulbrown permalink
    June 29, 2010 1:24 pm

    in my country gaining some weight is considered a good thing nevertheless not all the time. even though i am think and some might be surprised by this but i am very conscience about my weight as i wanna gain a few pounds. most men in my country loves women who are not to skinny and not to thick and i consider myself as being too skinny. my BFF is short but curvaceous and when she goes out she gets a lot of attention and i get less that what she gets. my boyfriend loves my body even though i think i am waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to skinny and he sees the beauty in my body that i am still trying to see… i am getting to love my body but its slowly taking time…

  64. rainebeaux permalink
    June 29, 2010 1:34 pm

    Neecy, in response to Elaine:

    BW need to stop being so sensitive about the weight issue, b/c far too many of us today are NOT healthy. Bump what stats say, Almost 80 percent of the BW I see with my own eyes daily are really overweight or slightly overweight.

    And…

    and Elaine, you are only 24 so let me repeat this. you keep comparing what YOU as a woman would be willing to do with a man who may not physically be up to your liking. MEN ARE DIFFERENT. Learn this now before its too late honey. Seriously, you don’t want to be in your 30′s and having this reality smack you in the face.

    ___

    Yep. Elaine, if I may use these points to clarify my last comment:

    You see, I wasn’t being negative in the least, but as someone who’s freshly removed from the hood, I’ve known for years (and again, found out the hard way) nothing good comes from our collective fatness…uh, yeah. Once a BBW (“bigarsed black woman” in this case) exits the all-black enclaves, the shock and awe kick in. From where I’m standing, only low-class men (mostly BM, but some non-BM mixed in also…hence, my previous “Federline Federation” reference) would give her a shot, but only for a laugh, a lay, and/or as a meal ticket. In short, too much weight LIMITS AND/OR OBLITERATES A BW’S OPTIONS….doesn’t matter how together she may be within.

    of course health should be the primary motivator, but in the dating department (IR and otherwise) and in EVERY area of life, we BW gotta be damn near FLAWLESS TARTAN PLAID UNICORNS–NOTHING should be amiss! [No sarcasm intended, just sayin'.]

    Oh, and at my age (32) with an OOW child, if I’m gonna interview potential real fathers for my daughter in the future, I gotta add platinum coating onto that unicorn….one can “Hail Nell” and point out exceptions ’til the cows come home, but neither will get me any closer to trading in my “babymama” scarlet letter for a damn ring! I gotta work out 7 days a week and save up for any cosmetic surgery (if needed) to gain ALL advantage! In the meantime, I’ll be sweating it out, avoiding most food and stockpiling on Spanx. Oh, and get my mind right.

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 1:43 pm

      “Oh, and at my age (32) with an OOW child, if I’m gonna interview potential real fathers for my daughter in the future, I gotta add platinum coating onto that unicorn”

      I SO feel you on this. This was ME 11 years ago. Yes, you must have your shite on point. Call me if you need me. We’re FB friends, right?

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 3:07 pm

      This is your view point, and I have a different one. I will tell you I used to think this way, before I gained 40 lbs and many dresses sizes to be “voluptuous” to appeal to “men’s” taste. I went from size 0/2 to 12/14. I still wasn’t happy. I was even more insecure, even with guy’s “seal of approval”. I felt that I needed surgery to alter my shape even more to be like a KIM K type. Then I came to this realization that I am doing this for all the wrong reasons. I didn’t really want to be that shape. I went through a whole lot since then. Long story short, I’m am working my way back to my old size and even went natural again (both as a symbolic way of getting in control of my own life). I want to feel beautiful on my own terms.

      Basically I have my own personal reasons for feeling the way I feel on this matter. I feel free not chasing the standard of beauty. This is how I cope with past feelings. If some get on board with my way of thinking, great! If not, at least I got my feelings out there.

      • Elaine permalink
        June 29, 2010 3:11 pm

        I lost 18 lbs and have 30 to go, so if any of you are in my boat, feel free to contact me so we can get a support group started.

      • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
        June 29, 2010 4:25 pm

        We’re going to start one here! Everybody check back tomorrow because we are going to share our “get skinny” regimens!

  65. Becca permalink
    June 29, 2010 1:54 pm

    Okay, so before I read all of the comments on this post, I want to add my own. I definitely agree with you when you say that “Rainbow” men prefer their women skinny….or at least, not overweight. That’s something that I definitely have to work on. I know that I’m not skinny, but at the same time, I’m not fat….I guess you could describe my body type as more chubby than anything else. A big problem for me is that I’m also top heavy and I know that adds a bit to my weight. Anyways, I managed to lose about 10 pounds over 2 months last year when I was really trying. I need to start taking advantage of the free gym that is both on campus and at my apartment complex. Anyways, great post. While you may have ruffled some feathers, we all can’t live in denial. Being healthy (and skinny) is necessary to not only increase your chances of attracting a “Rainbow” man, but also to help ensure that you live a relatively healthy, disease free life.

  66. rainebeaux permalink
    June 29, 2010 2:11 pm

    :| sorry, Christelyn, no FB account at all on my end*; I can email you, though.

    *by design: I’m afraid I might go into Hulk Smash mode if I run into any Neo-Mammies (the “woe is us/nuttin but a BM” crew) over there. I’m very reserved and cool offline, but perfectly capable of going in on the blatantly ignorant online: I’ve lost count of how many times I had to restrain myself from typing some version of “heffa, WHAT THE CUSS IS YO DANG PROBLEM!?” {snickering, smdh}

  67. Ali permalink
    June 29, 2010 3:25 pm

    lisa – I know what you’re saying, but do you want to give these women eating disorders? We have to speak honestly, but also be careful, you don’t want people dashing off in the opposite direction. See Beyonce and her maple syrup diet.

    Also – can we stop with the skinny hate pls? I love all these bw saying
    ‘men don’t like skinny women’. I guess that’s guys hate asian women so much? Maybe this is just a NY/Europe thing, but here – thin is so freaking in (with white guys). It’s almost silly to debate this. That doesn’t mean heavy set, overweight, even obese women don’t get men, cause they do.

    I think maybe we should distinguish ‘successful new york white guy’ from other successful rainbow men. White men are a whole ‘nother level with the skinny thing. A wall street/tribeca/central park west type guy with a size 10 wife? NEVER – not unless she’s about to give birth.

    A decent, hard working puerto rican insurance salesman with a plus size black wife – yep, could easily happen, I’ve seen it.

    I very briefly dated a lawyer who worked on the street, and attended a charity function with him that his firm was hosting. ALL the women ranged from sizes 0 – 4. ALL OF THEM. We’re talking almost 200 women. There were 3 or 4 black women there alright – but they were very petite.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 3:32 pm

      I love this post! Thanks ALI! I was like ok so big women gets no love and neither do skinny women. Oh I gotcha lol! That’s why I say be yourself. I am obviously not saying I support unhealthy habits, I’m the opposite actually. However, if you want to be size 16, 8, or 0, and you are happy, I say go for it. This men like XYZ so let’s adapt thing is a slippery slope. What’s next? Plus we know men who go for any of these sizes, so . . .

      Oh, BTW, can you point me in the direction of the Puerto Rican insurance salesman, please and THANK YOU!

    • September 1, 2010 2:05 am

      “I know what you’re saying, but do you want to give these women eating disorders? ”

      Perhaps you should play your own words back to yourself.

      Here’s a little hypothetical for you.

      A BW wants to date a man who lives on CPW who appears interested in her.

      She’s a size 8 though. Oh noez!

      According to your little diatribe here, where he’s not going to be seen with her b/c she’s not a size 0 …

      … now what?

  68. Ali permalink
    June 29, 2010 3:43 pm

    elaine, girl you know that fine man was taken – you better slow down! LOL :)

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 3:57 pm

      Awww dang! Of course he was! It’s funny because I bet you a million dollars that BW was like ” I ain’t dating no latino, white, etc” and then when PR insurance salesman worked his magic on her, it was OVER!

      Is this in NYC? If so, I think I will be plotting my move there pretty soon!

  69. Lisa in NYC permalink
    June 29, 2010 4:03 pm

    And I’ve seen a 28 year oold man married to a 66 year old woman. And a 300 pound woman married to a 150 pound ex-jockey.

    But that doesn’t mean either one of those things is what usually happens. You cannot keep offering these examples and portraying these as the norm.

    And btw, I’m a size 8. I wasn’t saying that we should all be trying to emulate these Manhattan Matrons around here.

    I feel well-loved in my life and I’m happy with my weight, and I don’t thin too many people would say I’m overweight.

    Back to the bigger issue, though. If you feel it’s more productive to keep trying to make the men of the world conform to your own set of standards as what constitutes an attractive weight, go to it. Let me know how that works out.

    Tilting at windmills isn’t my idea of a good time.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 5:34 pm

      This is my last time I will post so here I go. As a size 8, and being a range of sizes, I can feel women who are the smallest and the biggest. I think everyone should be respected first and foremost. So when people say you are not good enough (according to their opinion ***not a fact*** on what men like) then I feel for them and get on the defensive. I think some people’s approach on these article’s comments are too harsh to be real.

      My goal, to get back to size 0/2 again. Why because I want to, plus I think I would look the best at this size with my natural hair, shorter hair. However, I am certainly not going to knock a woman who is a size 16/18+ or 0/2- who thinks she’s the ish. Actually I would be quite proud. If she’s doing her, happy, and has her boo, I say right on sista! If a sista is unhappy because she doesn’t get many dates, I wouldn’t berate her. If she’s happy with her size, then I would find ways for her to get into the dating scene. If not, I will be happy to help her to lose weight and get healthy, if that’s her choice.

      My stance, I’m all for women doing them, whether they are the skinnest or the biggest while promoting health & fitness. I also think people need to realize you can be healthy at a bigger size too (not like obese, because that’s different all together IMO). I made the mistake of thinking like this years ago, and I was proven wrong.

    • Elaine permalink
      June 29, 2010 5:37 pm

      It’s not about changing “men’s” mind about standard of beauty, to me it’s about women taking control of their own bodies and images on their own accord, being happy with one’s self. I love myself and therefore I want to change XYZ because I want to do or be ABC. That’s it.

  70. June 29, 2010 5:29 pm

    Christelyn, Browncow, Blkqueenbe, & Rainebeaux-

    I agree with you in that we do need to make ourselves “appealing” to our target audience, I mean that is why we found your blog Christelyn, is it not ladies? We were looking to find out what we are either doing wrong, so that we can correct it, or we were looking for tips on what we can do to become more appealing to “other” men, our target audience.

    Marketing and target audiences-

    Part of the appeal process is the packaging. Marketers know this. They have conducted studies for decades on what makes people interested in one product and not another, even when the contents of both products are the SAME. It all boils down to packaging.

    Marketers want to appeal to as wide a range of consumers as possible, so that they can sell more product. The difference between us and marketers is that we want to appeal to the “most desireable” men, as opposed to the least desireable. I think that Rainebeaux put it best when she wrote: “I gotta add platinum coating onto that unicorn.” In short, she is looking for the best of the best, not second best or second-hand. I want a platinum unicorn too, and a diamond ring!! :-D

    Ladies, whether you want to believe it or not, your looks are your package, from your hair follicles down to your toes, but not in the way that you might think. We are not looking to sell our bodies as whores, like Buffy the Body did in order to get those gigs, but market ourselves as desireable, confident, & ATTRACTIVE women.

    Like Aabaakawaa pointed out, you don’t have to be a #1 stunna’, just attractive and at a healthy weight with a decent attitude. I have been able to attract “other” men being overweight, but I think constantly about how many missed opportunities I might have had because I was carrying around this excess baggage.

    I pointed out in an earlier post what is a healthy weight for our height/age, I will post it again here: http://www.apft-standards.com/femaleheightandweight.html

    People, people, people – Denial (de Nile) is a river that flows in Africa. Ladies, stop floating down that ancient river. Get out of the boat and start walking.

    ~~Go and look at the chart.~~

    Find “your” weight range for your “age”. Make this your “packaging” goal. I am.

    Have a hard time envisioning your ideal weight on your current body??

    Imagine this:

    You are going to a highly anticipated and much talked about annual party, with all the whose-who of soceity and you show up wearing a wrinkled-up oversized gown that bunches up in all the wrong places. All eyes are on you as you enter the room.

    or

    You are going to a highly anticipated and much talked about annual party, with all the whose-who of soceity and you show up wearing a georgous hand-tailored designer gown that fits oh-so-perfectly. All eyes are on you as you enter the room.

    So, Cinderella, what gown do you want to show up wearing?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    To the lady who isn’t dating because of her weight (CurlyNinja, right?) or any other woman who is tired of only being able to select from a very limited pool of men, let’s get to gettin’ ladies ( I stole that from Niecy Nash- she lost a lot of weight recently). FB “friend” me and I will send you stalker-type reminders about your goals & diet, m’kay? Seriously, and I would like the same in return. ;-)

    Speaking of support, Christelyn, I think that your suggestion of putting together a group of women who have lost weight and kept it off to guest blog would be an ~~~excellent~~~ idea, Smithers. I would like it if they could “spill their soul”, if you will. That is, list the challenges they faced, their weakest points while dieting, how they determined what their triggers were, etc. I know that it is asking for a lot, but it is for a great cause. Help a “sistah” out, m’kay? Lots of times women feel that they must go it alone, they are the only ones, or that nobody cares. Sharing is caring.
    And finally, Rainebeaux, I’m borrowing your words. I hope you don’t mind.

    ~~~ Platinum-coated unicorns and diamond rings to you all ~~~

  71. June 29, 2010 6:09 pm

    post awaiting moderation…..

    Christelyn, I get this everytime I post here. Did I do something wrong?

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 6:29 pm

      No! I wonder about that same thing. I’m not sure why the system does that for you. I have not put any special restrictions on you at all. Damn system. Any idea how I can stop this from happening?

      • June 29, 2010 10:49 pm

        Perhaps it’s the link(s) that I add in. Oh well; que cera, sera.

  72. Ali permalink
    June 29, 2010 6:22 pm

    This is truly my final word on this, but I couldn’t agree more lafemme set yourself up to be in the best position possible, w/o completly sacrificing your piece of mind to be the smallest size possible. Understand and accept how non-black men think, but also realize that for the kind of guy YOU want, a medium size might be enough.

    If you want to date a nice indian Office IT guy or a hispanic insurance salesman, I don’t see why you would need to be a size 0 to do that. That just seems crazy to me, and those guys are white collar and decent, they’ve got degrees, they want to be fathers – they’re good catches. A lot of black women would be happy with those guys.

    If you want some white dude who’s a lawyer, doctor, architect – even if he’s not that good looking – then you prob. can’t be bigger than a size 6, just being real.

    If you are talking Mr. Big, Master of the universe, top of the shelf type – the weekend house upstate, preppy abercrombie and fitch looks, large investment portfolio – you have to bring your size 0 (or 2, or 4) game, I hate to admit it but at least that’s how it works in NYC.

    So figure out what you want, what your definition of ‘successful’ guy is and how far you are reasonably willing to go. If you’re naturally a size 14, are you really going to try to starve yourself down to a size 0 to date a Mr. Big? That doesn’t make any sense – you wouldn’t be able to enjoy your life with the guy, you’d be killing yourself everyday.

    But if you are naturally a size 4/6 and can be a size 0 with a reasonable amount of effort and hard work – it might be worth it to you – it is to me . . . .

  73. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 6:56 pm

    Ali :This is truly my final word on this, but I couldn’t agree more lafemme set yourself up to be in the best position possible, w/o completly sacrificing your piece of mind to be the smallest size possible. Understand and accept how non-black men think, but also realize that for the kind of guy YOU want, a medium size might be enough.
    If you want to date a nice indian Office IT guy or a hispanic insurance salesman, I don’t see why you would need to be a size 0 to do that. That just seems crazy to me, and those guys are white collar and decent, they’ve got degrees, they want to be fathers – they’re good catches. A lot of black women would be happy with those guys.
    If you want some white dude who’s a lawyer, doctor, architect – even if he’s not that good looking – then you prob. can’t be bigger than a size 6, just being real.
    If you are talking Mr. Big, Master of the universe, top of the shelf type – the weekend house upstate, preppy abercrombie and fitch looks, large investment portfolio – you have to bring your size 0 (or 2, or 4) game, I hate to admit it but at least that’s how it works in NYC.
    So figure out what you want, what your definition of ‘successful’ guy is and how far you are reasonably willing to go. If you’re naturally a size 14, are you really going to try to starve yourself down to a size 0 to date a Mr. Big? That doesn’t make any sense – you wouldn’t be able to enjoy your life with the guy, you’d be killing yourself everyday.
    But if you are naturally a size 4/6 and can be a size 0 with a reasonable amount of effort and hard work – it might be worth it to you – it is to me . . . .

    i’m sorry this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on here. Uhm how old are you? this may explain some parts in your post. You are basically saying any BW who wants to date a WM in NY needs to be a size 0-4? Just when I thought this thread was going well. Yeah every attractive hardworking successful WM is with a size 0-4? ooookay. GOT IT! how silly do you sound telling BW a size med that they can only at best get with some hispanic insurance salesman? LMAO. Someone always has to take it to the ridiculous! *SMH*

    Sweetie i live in los Angeles and I have been a pharma rep for years. i have seen what many of the wives/gf’s of attractive well to do WM look like. And not all of them were size 0-4. Some were and others were in the MEDIUM range and VERY attractive.

    now if you are saying they would not be caught dead with a large woman – YES.

    How dare you sit here and tell BW over a size 4 to just accept they may have to be with Non White males (hispanic insurance salesmen)if they are a med.

    Maybe you outta get out of New York and into the real world. the attractive WM I see with women of all races MOST are with women who range from small to medium. very rarely do I see an attractive fit WM with a large woman.

  74. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 7:13 pm

    I thought it would be funny to take Ali’s last post and pretend it was a WHITE WOMAN telling a Black woman about her chances at getting upwardly mobile WM in New York being BLACK and dark skinned. My additions are the CAPS.

    “Understand and accept how non-black men think, but also realize that for the kind of guy YOU want, being a black woman might be enough to put you out of the running.
    If you want to date a nice indian Office IT guy or a hispanic insurance salesman, I don’t see why you would need to be a WHITE OR ASIAN WOMAN to do that. That just seems crazy to me, and those guys are white collar and decent, they’ve got degrees, they want to be fathers – they’re good catches. A lot of white women would be happy with those guys.
    If you want some white dude who’s a lawyer, doctor, architect – even if he’s not that good looking – then you prob. HAVE TO LOOK LIKE A WHITE WOMAN.
    If you are talking Mr. Big, Master of the universe, top of the shelf type – the weekend house upstate, preppy abercrombie and fitch looks, large investment portfolio – you have to bring your size TALL SKINNY BLONDE WHITE GIRL game, I hate to admit it but at least that’s how it works in NYC.
    So figure out what you want, what your definition of ‘successful’ guy is and how far you are reasonably willing to go. If you’re naturally A NON MIXED BLACK WOMAN, are you really going to try to BLEACH YOUR SKIN WHITE AND BLEACH YOUR HAIR BLONDE to date a Mr. Big? That doesn’t make any sense – you wouldn’t be able to enjoy your life with the guy, you’d be killing yourself everyday.
    But if you are naturally a SAY.. LATINA WHO CAN PASS FOR WHITE with a reasonable amount of effort and hard work – it might be worth it to you – it is to me . . . .”

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 29, 2010 7:47 pm

      Neecy, I’m e-slapping your hand for that.

  75. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 7:18 pm

    Lisa in NYC : And btw, I’m a size 8. .

    Uuuhm. Are you sure? You did say your fiance was White correct? You also live in NY? Well according to your neighbor ALI you should be dating the Indian IT Office guy or a Hispanic insurance salesman b/c WM in NY (at least the DECENT ONES) only date women sizes 0-4.

    Better chuck your loser White fiance and go get that hispanic insurance salesman!

  76. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:00 pm

    randomthoughtsfromcali :Neecy, I’m e-slapping your hand for that.

    Ok Random (sowwy) but hopefully u know i don’t believe that of course. I believe ANY attractive well put together woman of any race and healthy attractive weight can get ANY DECENT man of any race. this idea that only decent WM date sizes 0-4 is ludacris and silly and insulting. That’s like some WW or others who believe BW can only get “certain” kinds of WM and not the upscale ones b/c we are simply Black and “inferioir” b/c of our skin color (yes some people believe this). i have HEARD and seen people who believe this about BW. So BW need to be careful before telling each other these same kinds of things and making ridiculous generalizations.

    I was just trying to make a point. People need to be very careful about what they put out b/c it can easily be turned back on them and suddenly they can see the ridiculousness in their comments.

  77. Ali permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:24 pm

    Ok, I was gonna bounce, but this is too outragous! Neecy you are off the charts wrong, and I truly feel sorry for you.

    A – It’s clear to me that, for you, dating a white guy is a ‘step up’ from dating a hispanic guy . . . obviously this is your view, because that’s the conclusion you quickly leapt to. Perhaps all that california sun has fried your brain. I’m talking about cultural ideals – thiness is celebrated in white society. Not so much among say, mexican men. or cuban men. or puerto rican men. That’s simply a fact. Therefore, if you are looking for an hispanic man, being thin is not something you would have to stress about as much as if you were looking for some white guy.

    If this was a discussion about RELIGON and finding mates, and you’re an ATHEIST, then I’d say you’d have an easier time finding a white guy to fit your chosen lifestyle than a hispanic guy. You would have to really look for a mexican guy that would date you – because most of them are not having that. But guess that would be wrong too. . . . . you really need to look inside yourself about why you assume that a white guy – any white guy with any job – would be every bw’s first choice anyway. Hmmmmm . . . . .

    B – Did you miss the part where I said – white dude doctor and lawyer? It has just as much to do with the big fancy profession as it has to do with race. You also missed the ‘prob.’ Go back and re-read what I said. Nobodys whipping out measuring tapes here, but when you see such couples walking around – and you’ve met several of them, that is how they look. The chick is thin/slim. Usually quite thin/slim. Usually a size six or under. PERIOD.

    Nowhere does it say – if you weigh more than’ X’, no white guy of any profession will want you. How silly. So you can breathe easy dear Neecy, you’ll find your ‘white knight’. You won’t have to ‘settle’ for a non-white guy – which is clearly second best. SMH.

    Just because you don’t like something, doesn’t make it untrue. Perhaps in LA, lawyers and doctors of all colors are falling all over themselves in the mad rush to get plus size women. This is not the case in NYC – not for plus size white, black, or asian women. The skin color of the girl is interchangable – it’s the size . . . . . . especially if the guy in question is white. It’s simply a cultural thing for them. Got that? Luckily there are exceptions, I’ve noted several in other posts, so you can relax. Your Mr. Big is on the way.

    C. I have a right to any preference that I choose. I also have the right to tailor myself to appeal to that group’s likes, or IGNORE those likes and do my own thing, or do what I’m willing to do and ignore the rest, or say ‘screw them’ and go for another group of men because the ones I prefer are too much hassle for me. That is my right, and my choice.

    You owe me an apology, but I won’t hold my breath.

  78. Lisa in NYC permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:34 pm

    Whoa, ladies, could you keep it down? I don’t’t want my fiance to overhear this conversation and think something’s wrong with the choice he made, since he’s in banking, lol.

    Just having a little fun, girls.

    You know, I think this post has reached the point of diminishing returns – everyone is pretty touchy over every real or imagined affront to somebody else.

    I didn’t get me feelings hurt, everything’s cool, let’s shake hands and call it a wrap.

    • Neecy permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:52 pm

      Happy happy Joy Joy!!!

    • Neecy permalink
      June 29, 2010 8:59 pm

      Happy Happy – JOy JOY!!! Onto the next topic!!!

  79. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:46 pm

    Ali- WHATEVER.

    This is not about looking down on other Non blk men outside of White. the way you made your post, you PLAINLY made it clear that any woman over a size 4 should just accept and be happy with the “Hispanic insurance salesman” vs. trying to attract an upscale “huge portfolio, lawyer, Abercrombie Fitch” looking white male. You could have replaced Hispanic with White insurance salesman and the message is still clear —”YOU AINT worth the upscale WM if you aren’t a size 0-4 so settle for someone UNDER HIM.” If you were trying to compare apples to apples you would have made a comparison in which the Hispanic guy was on the same level as the White guy in terms of looks, class etc. you didn’t, got put on front street now you are trying to clean it up by saying I am looking down on ethnic men? Girl please! YOU SAID it plain and simple! That’s the same thing as some White woman telling Black women that maybe they should go for the Hispanic or Indian It guys as opposed to the upscale White men b/c most WM of that caliber prefer White women. See how that works? yeah… I’m sure that would sit well with you (rolling eyes). And yes what if some BW only want a WM – so what! That’s their prerogative. I’m sure they wouldn’t appreciate your silly generalization just like you wouldn’t appreciate some WW making some stupid racist generalization that BW should go for “certain” kinds of men b/c they are BLACK.

    Don’t try to backtrack or turn this into me looking down on ethnic Non White men. I don’t even have a PREFERENCE for White males. I find all kinds of Non black men visually appealing and attractive on many different levels. but don’t try to play it off now b/c you got called out for making some stupid elitist generalization and telling BW over a size 4 to basically “SETTLE” (that’s the insinuation) for any other race of man besides White “cause you don’t stand a chance if you are over a size 4” nonsense. And like I said you could have easily replaced Hispanic and Indian with WHITE and the message would still read the same.

    Like I said, a White woman can easily say the same thing to YOU missy (about your race and not being able to get the upwardly mobile WM) so better be careful about what you say. I bet it wouldn’t sound so good then would it?

    Don’t bother responding. I’m done with YOU and this topic. too bad it had to turn to this towards the end. But like I said – someone always needs to take it to the ridiculous!

    Random, I won’t be making any more responses on this particular post, so no worries…..

    And you can kid yourself if you choose. just as quickly as you can type some ridiculous post about how UPSCALE WM only want women 0-4, a WW or other Non Blk person can put your little tail back in place by saying they they see only upscale WM with WHITE women. now how

  80. Neecy permalink
    June 29, 2010 8:52 pm

    The last paragraph shouldn’t be there lol. Forgot to edit that out. but since its there…….

  81. June 29, 2010 10:10 pm

    Neecy, thanks for the compliment way back there. I missed it reading through the first time.

    Neecy :

    lafemmenoir :Onwards.We, as women, especially as black women, need to take better care of ourselves, plain and simple. A healthy diet is our friends. P>

    Lafemm, this so far is the best post I read. BW we just need to take better care of ourselves. PERIOD. And you are right, being overweight and unhealthy looking is not just related to physical health but mental heatlth. Many BW today are simply MISERABLE. And the weight we carry is reflective of that. Guess what. I was always at a normal healthy weight until a few years ago when – yes – I had a very emotional and stressful situation. And i gained a lot of weight.
    i don’t care who chooses to argue with me. if you look at the average BW daily just while you are out and about – she is usually overweight in some way shape or form. That is very telling.

    I am so happy that you were able to get past that period in your life! Motivate!

  82. June 29, 2010 10:23 pm

    Thank you Ali.

    Ali :This is truly my final word on this, but I couldn’t agree more lafemme set yourself up to be in the best position possible, w/o completly sacrificing your piece of mind to be the smallest size possible. Understand and accept how non-black men think, but also realize that for the kind of guy YOU want, a medium size might be enough.
    If you want to date a nice indian Office IT guy or a hispanic insurance salesman, I don’t see why you would need to be a size 0 to do that. That just seems crazy to me, and those guys are white collar and decent, they’ve got degrees, they want to be fathers – they’re good catches. A lot of black women would be happy with those guys.
    If you want some white dude who’s a lawyer, doctor, architect – even if he’s not that good looking – then you prob. can’t be bigger than a size 6, just being real.
    If you are talking Mr. Big, Master of the universe, top of the shelf type – the weekend house upstate, preppy abercrombie and fitch looks, large investment portfolio – you have to bring your size 0 (or 2, or 4) game, I hate to admit it but at least that’s how it works in NYC.
    So figure out what you want, what your definition of ‘successful’ guy is and how far you are reasonably willing to go. If you’re naturally a size 14, are you really going to try to starve yourself down to a size 0 to date a Mr. Big? That doesn’t make any sense – you wouldn’t be able to enjoy your life with the guy, you’d be killing yourself everyday.
    But if you are naturally a size 4/6 and can be a size 0 with a reasonable amount of effort and hard work – it might be worth it to you – it is to me . . . .

    Ali, I really liked the way that you broke it down. For some, a size 0 isn’t worth the effort, but there will be those that this size best suits (as far as being with the captain’s of industry, if you will). I see that there are some very successful men out there who do have black wives and the only one that I can think of who has a plus-sized wife is Roger Ebert. The other women do seem to vary in size, like 4, 6, & 8, from what I can tell.

  83. June 29, 2010 10:38 pm

    @ Ali- I think that perhaps you should have pointed out that women need to study the kind of men that they are interested in, say for example it’s a man notoriously known for not being one to date anyone who is larger than a size 4. If you are looking to snag this guy, and you KNOW he has a thing for size 0-4, your best bet is to go in big (0-4 sized)guns blazing, because sometimes you will not be afforded the opportunity to meet him or catch his eye again. Sometimes a size 8 might be able to turn the head of a man who is normally interested in a size 2 or 4, and all is well, but in reality, those situatiions are probably few and far between.

    Typically, we like what we like. Kristelyn did a blog on that here: (http://beyondblackwhite.wordpress.com/2010/06/10/whats-wrong-with-having-a-preference-anyway/). It is definitely worth a re-read.

  84. Glib Gurl permalink
    June 30, 2010 9:07 am

    I think, in general, men prefer thinner women . . . regardless of anyone’s race or color. But you can never stereotype or generalize. I am dating a “rainbow” man who is pretty skinny himself and I am far from skinny. Yet, he loves my curves. In fact, they are among his favorite features. Sooo, I have to say I disagree with the premise of this blog entry. *shrug*

    • randomthoughtsfromcali permalink*
      June 30, 2010 10:09 am

      Hi Glib, we discussed this issue a few threads back. While we all agree that there are exceptions, the premise is just the general rule. Thanks for visiting!

  85. June 30, 2010 10:04 am

    I must be an exception to this entry, because I am in a very loving relationship, with a handsome white man and I am obese. I am, however, working on getting in better shape, not because I want to keep him, but because I want us to have a long rest of our lives together, that will include children.

  86. Fii permalink
    June 30, 2010 5:43 pm

    I do think that it is extremely important for black women to focus on their health and if they care to get in shape. Not solely to attract a man but if it does that is an added bonus. But I do notice that rainbow guys (I love that term btw :3) who like black women don’t always go for the stick thin types like they might in white women. Not to say that they are 250lbs, but a lot of them are average sized and a little thicker. A lot of photos that you see on websites similar to this one, many women are between 140 and 180lbs. Obvious not grossly overweight but not stick thin either. So like I said, it’s about keeping healthy and keeping in relative shape. I personally am getting more fit and prefer a slimmer body type because I think it’s what looks good on me. But that is not necessary to catch a man. There’s a girl I know who is very naturally thin, she goes on an on about how white men favor her because she’s naturally thin. But she gets used and thrown anyway all the same because she feels that the only reason they like her and she has no other substance behind her appeal.

  87. June 30, 2010 7:33 pm

    Did you ladise see this article? 35%? Wow, very scary…

    http://healthyamericans.org/reports/obesity2010/

  88. July 1, 2010 2:08 pm

    I had to comment, although a bit late. As a BW who has been dating interracialy for awhile now, I’ve come across a gamut of men who are particular in what body type they prefer in a woman, especially black women. More recently I had a off and on relationship with a Japanese man. I was concerned about my “big bootie” being a turn off for him until he kindly let me know that he’d dated women bigger than me. This man was 5’11 and lean (at 36 he even had nice abs). Knowing he used to live in the Mid-west prior to coming to NYC I thought about the women he dated, mainly white. I was surprised as I could only picture him with a Japanese woman who was petite and thin like my close friends. He liked them big and now I had a new worry….maybe I wasn’t big enough for him! lol I had to get out of that mentality that non-black men automatically prefer “this type” of woman.

    Now, I’m friends with a few other non-black men and when I look at the body types of many of the women they seem to be attracted to or date, they are all bigger than me (I’m 5’8″, 156, and a Sz 8 after 3 children and nearing 40–in other words, average). Some of the women would be considered obese, I’m talking about East Asian men and White men mostly who like these type of women. These are men who openly prefer black women too. I’m not saying men don’t have preference, as I know of a few men who have openly stated they want a woman who is a Sz 4, no leeway on this, but I find this fewer amongst my circle and after much people watching, I think it still comes down to what he finds attractive.

    I agree with being healthy and maintaining a healthy life-style for yourself first and foremost. A man that sees you striving for greatness will admire you and take interest in you personally than just your body.

    Obesity is not cute on anyone, men or women. In the end, it really comes down to the individual after we get past the physical.

    Blessings ladies. ;D

  89. anab permalink
    July 5, 2010 6:58 am

    First off I must agree that Black women do tend to slack off on their fitness a lot more than their White counterparts. That said, I have to ask someone to please define skinny. As someone who is 5’5″ and a size 4-6 with boobies and a booty, skinny to me means Nicole Richie pre-baby, it doesn’t mean womanly.

    As a younger Black woman with quite a bit of experience dating outside her race, I can tell you that men-Black, White, whatever-like women who are healthy and take care of themselves. They also are hardwired from those cave man days to seek out a mate that would bare them healthy babies, meaning she has curves and is healthy not too fat not too thin. Being from the South where we all grow thicker, I don’t see White men passing up ANY women with a little junk in their trunk. Honestly, as stated by another reason, chicks like Jennifer Lopez, Scarlet Johansen, Selma Hayek, Eve Mendez, Halle Berry, I can go on, would not make Maxim’s Hot 100 list if WHITE MEN did not find them and their booties attractive.

    At the end of the day you need to be satisfied with YOU not look to a man to affirm your self esteem. If you area at an unhealthy weight you need to work out and get right not for a man but to stave off those 51 #1 killers of Black women-you know heart disease, hypertension, cancer, pork.

    As a side note, to the people debating if Buffie’s booty is real, I know plenty of girls with flat tummies and stripper booties…Its called squats.

    Like Sir Mix-a-Lot said “even white boys got to shout-baby got back”

    • Christelyn permalink*
      July 5, 2010 7:07 am

      The word “skinny” to some may seem derogatory, but if someone called me skinny, I’d say thank you in a minute. To me, skinny=opposite of fat.

      As for Buffy: I’m an avid exerciser, but I gotta be honest, no amount of lunges could EVER get my butt the size of a pumpkin.

      • Eugenia permalink
        July 6, 2010 8:43 pm

        Somebody told me the other day I looked ‘skinny’ LOL. I laugh because I’m far my skinny self, I’m still 5’8″ and 180 lbs and wearing a 12/14 which to me is not too terrible. My doctor likes me at 165 so I got a little ways to go and I want the tummy down a bit for the impending wedding. But my sweetie says I’m so little to him but he’s a big guy, not fat, just big 6’4″ so I always feel petite which is nice (and petite doesn’t mean little just short) and I never feel short LOL. I loved the compliment, I told her I’d lost like 20 lbs since I’d bounced that ex-husband and rest was just from being darn happy. I’m not trying to compete with no other woman, I don’t want to be smaller than 165 cause I start looking like a crackhead but I know most women are shorter than me and while my 180 don’t look like 180 cause I’m so tall, it is and I know that. So if you have goals let’s support each other in them, there’s somebody out there for everybody and all this on and on on whether she’s gonna met him if she’s 4/6 or 14/16 is just a guess. None of us have met or talked to every man in the world and really all of us that would like to meet one need is just one, not them all.

      • Christelyn permalink*
        July 6, 2010 8:49 pm

        So, did you take the “skinny” remark as a compliment? :)

  90. Ann permalink
    July 21, 2010 11:37 pm

    Good topic. This is what most non-black men tell me. I’m a black woman and I’m a little on the unhealthy side. I’m trying to lose 20-30 lbs by December, and so far I have received little support from my “large” friends. By losing weight, I will able to not only attract non-black men, but also be healthy and have more self confidence in myself.

  91. lucy permalink
    August 20, 2010 4:06 pm

    i have too say i have seen a few women who have these figures they are usually bigger but i have seen a girl who was slim from the top slim waist and then a large bottom. Sometimes it’s not healthy and lose weight will be beneficial for those who are large all over. But like it or not these are the genes of some of your west african ancestors, in Nigeria for example, the men still prefer women like that but larger in fact there are actual fat camps were a woman who don’t have such a large frame can go and fatten up, in some case the parents force them so that the will get a husband. Personally i believe a woman should be active and healthy and losing weight should be for herself not because she is trying to attract a white,black or any other race. It’s quite disturbing when i see this purposed. I come from ghanaian background going to Ghana you will see women with all different shapes definetely not obese (i think you guys in a America have a problem) but the women whether slim or a little larger they are curve so you will see a slim petite girl who will have a curve bum in portion nevetheless round this is how we are made. Clearly there are black women who are natural shaped without many curves, a lot of the top black models are west and east African. I don’t think it is good to try and acquire a figure like the ideal white woman when that is not what is natural to us, just so we can attract a white man, women over the century have been doing crazy thing to attract a man like the fat camp which is dangerous to one health. I really believe that if a man of any race is going to be interested in a black woman he should take her as she is this doesn’t mean that i don’t believe black women shouldn’ work out and get healthy and lose weight if neccesary, am just saying that all the working out you do you will still have a beautiful curvy womanly body it will be smaller in size but still curvy so i think who ever is interested in you should accept that.

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  1. Part II of Rainbow Men Like ‘Em Skinny: Share the Secrets of Your Weight Loss Success!! « Beyond Black & White

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